Lemmings Plus III - Development Topic

[namida]

And I just realised (while updating the completion count) - this new level brings us to 1/3rd of the total levels complete!

I'm going to make a slight modification to my DAT packer tool, to also check how many levels are in each style, because it's quite hard to judge for myself. At any rate, I think I definitely better start making the lab style soon, if I don't want it to be as rare as the crystal style in the original game. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

EDIT: Oh wow, so far it's better balanced than I thought. 13 Sky levels, 12 Circuit levels and 11 Martian levels. (Although part of this last one is the fact that the once-per-rank level is a Martian one.)

Also, concerning that once-per-rank level... I've made some modifications to it that make all the versions of it work far better. Except for one slight catch - previously I had the paired versions in the same level slots (to be specific, the Timid and Fierce versions as level 2, and the Dodgy and Rough versions as level 14, in their respective ranks) - but the problem is, the new changes make the Timid version, while still suitable for Timid, far too hard for Timid 2. The Fierce version however, is not hard enough to be much later than a very early Fierce level. So those two no longer are in the same slot (Dodgy and Rough versions are still both Level 14); but the Timid version has been moved to Timid 23.

Between this change and the backroute fix on Dodgy 2 (Dodgy 1 of the second demo), I'm thinking about releasing an updated version of the demo... I might wait a bit longer though, since I haven't got any successful replays (and only even one *attempt* replay) for the Fierce levels so far. I've pretty much tested the second level to death and I'm almost certain it's free of backroutes, but the first one might have some (though I'm not sure what they might be - the attempt replay I've received was well and truly on the right track, just not quite getting every nessecary detail).

[namida]

Okay, yep, I decided to just do the update.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/79dqs0de0yb1ds1/LPIIIDemo2.zip" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/download/79dqs0de0yb1ds1/LPIIIDemo2.zip

No changes to the player, but just to three of the levels:
Timid 1 - Now plays the correct music, and save requirement reduced to 70%
Dodgy 1 - Backroute fixed
Rough 2 - Has the new (much harder than before) version of the level

For those people who've received my replays: the existing replay for Dodgy 1 still works, but I'll need to make a new one for Rough 2. There's no changes to the layout of Timid 1, only a reduction in the save requirement (and my replay saves 100% anyway) and a fix to the music played (which doesn't affect gameplay), so obviously the replay will still work there.


And I'll reveal the cheat code now. It's "DEMO2CHEAT". Some of you might've even been able to guess it, it's a kind of obvious variant on the first demo cheat code. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Note that you still can't access the secret level with cheat codes, you just have to find it the proper way.

And for those who are having trouble finding the secret level... I won't say its exact location, but I'll say what level to look in:

It's somewhere in Timid 1.

[namida]

Okay, well so far, two people have sent me replays but - only one of them managed to solve Rough 1; I don't quite think this level is Fierce-worthy but I'll probably move it to a later position in Rough (probably somewhere in the last 5). And no one (at least as far as I'm aware) has managed to solve either of the Fierce levels yet (though Akseli did come close), so they must be pretty good levels! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

Both people I've received replays from were able to solve the Timid and Dodgy levels without (as far as I'm aware) too much difficulty.

[namida]

The V2 update broke accessing the secret level; updated again to fix that (there's no other changes in this update).

http://www.mediafire.com/download/79dqs0de0yb1ds1/LPIIIDemo2.zip" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/download/79dqs0de0yb1ds1/LPIIIDemo2.zip

Note that if for any reason you need/want to play the secret level on V2, you can do so by using V1 or V3 to get to the level, writing down the code, then entering that code in V2. The level is still there; it's just that the secret trigger is missing.

[namida]

So I finally came up with a level that I think works well as a tutorial level for pickup skills - while Extra Skill Required and Flea Market are both pretty good levels IMO (especially the former), they're definitely not suitable for Timid, and I'm trying to have all the tutorial levels in there as much as possible.

So here's what I came up with. 5 climbers, 0 floaters, 2 each of the remaining skills. 50 lemmings, with an 80% requirement. (100% isn't too hard to acheive - I actually intentionally built in a backroute that allows for it, before realising that a simple variation on the normal solution can actually achieve it. xD) And in case you were wondering - no, even if you bash through the bump to make the top of the steel flat, the fall is still 8(ish) pixels too far to survive.

[namida]

Just made Rough 25, which is also the pack's first significantly challenging zero-builder level (I did say I was going to try and make some http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> ). It's not a "To The End"/"No Construction Zone" type level (aside from not having the signature skillset, it's also a fairly short level and doesn't require (nor possible to achieve) 100%), just a level with zero builders. It also means that Fierce is now the only rank that still doesn't have a final level - Timid 25 was among the first levels I made for LPIII, and Dodgy's had one for a while too.

Also, I moved "The Soft Scale" (Rough 1 of the second demo, and previously placed at Rough 9) to Rough 16. Not a major change by any means, though it does mean that technically the 2nd demo Rough levels are now the wrong way around (since the other one is Rough 14 in the full game).



And, I've started making the Lab style now. I'm not sure whether I'll reveal some pieces and/or levels at some point, or keep it completely under wraps until release. Definitely I'll keep some parts of it under wraps (there's even some stuff - albeit not much - in the Sky and Martian styles that I haven't openly revealed, and while the Circuit style has been released openly and thus anyone can experiment with it, there's stuff in it that I haven't revealed any levels containing yet. That's why I feel comfortable with showing off a lot of the work rather than saving it till release - because there's also plenty more that I *don't* show ahead of time). All I will say is that at least in terms of terrain design, out of the official styles it has the most similarity to the Brick style, at least so far, though also some similarity to the Marble style too; and the exit is more reminiscient of the traditional exit design than the ones in the other 3 styles have been. (As with the other 3 styles, the window is just a standard and recolored one - it's lightish blue.)

I find it somewhat interesting, too, that there are more levels in the Sky style than any other so far, even though it's my least favorite to create levels in. o_O

Also, all four gimmick tutorial levels are done! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> Only one of the gimmick challenge levels (the one featured in the 1st demo) is done, though, although I know more or less exactly what I'm going to do for another one of them (just haven't actually built it yet).

[namida]

The challenge gimmick level for Dodgy has been made. Still got to make (or even come up with the idea) for the Rough and Fierce ones.

[namida]

Well, I figure it's time I may as well publicly reveal it in some form... This isn't the first lab level I've made, nor nessecerially the most interesting, but the other three were made before the addition of the water object and slime terrain so I figured this one was the best to use to show off the style. Although on the downside it doesn't have any steel in it...

[Minim]

So no steel in this graphic style then? I thought the metal bars were steel anyway. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Maybe you ran out of terrain space?

Still, it looks quite colorful, and I like the slimy terrain and the big bricks. That pipe in the middle is probably terrain, but it looks like a trap that may work well with slimy water.

[namida]

So no steel in this graphic style then? I thought the metal bars were steel anyway. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Maybe you ran out of terrain space?

There is steel in the style; there's just no steel in *that level*. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

Still, it looks quite colorful, and I like the slimy terrain and the big bricks. That pipe in the middle is probably terrain, but it looks like a trap that may work well with slimy water.

It is indeed terrain. I do want to include a triggered trap in this style, but not exactly sure what it'll be yet. So far, the only objects are the window, exit (and its decorative flames), water, and one-way arrows (including down). Aside from those and a triggered trap, I'm also definitely going to include a radiation object (also present in the Sky style, as can be seen in Timid 2 of the second demo), as well as the objects that I'm putting in every style (ie: pre-placed lemmings, pickup skills and secret triggers - even though this last one may not actually end up being used, as all but one of the secret level triggers have already been placed). Not sure what (if anything) else.

[namida]

With the latest level I've made (a Lab level that ended up as Rough 20), we now have at least one level of each style in each rank! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

[namida]

To go back to the first demo levels - I finally found a solution to Rough 3 ("Extra Skill Required") that saves more than the requirement. It still doesn't save 100% (it gets 97%), but it's still an improvement over what was previously thought possible.

I'm also wondering if I should maybe tone down the difficulty of Fierce a bit, based on that it still seems no one's been able to solve either of the demo 2 Fierce levels... (and also that it's quite time-consuming and hard to make levels of that difficulty...). I mean, I thought Genius 19 (and to a lesser extent, Genius 8 ) from LPII were pretty damn hard, but at least people were able to solve those ones...


I also just noticed a somewhat amusing pattern in the first levels of each rank: Timid 1's release rate is 20, Dodgy 1's is 30, Rough 1's is 40, Fierce 1's is 50. Although most of them the release rate isn't an overly huge deal; except for Rough 1 which would be impossible with a release rate higher than 49 because of the teleporter. Also noticed that out of these, Rough 1 has both the lowest time limit and the highest save requirement (being the only level 1 (at least so far) in the Lemmix-based LP series to require 100%, if you don't count the LPII Bonus Pack). All these levels are in the demos by the way - the 1st level of each rank in the first demo, or for Fierce 1, the first level of Fierce in the 2nd demo; although Dodgy 1 has been slightly modified since then (the other three are completely unchanged).

[namida]

I've shown this shot to a few people privately, but I'll release it publicly now. Here's a Lab-style level from Fierce. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> And this one has steel in it too. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

I won't say too much about this level, but difficulty wise, I'd say it's a tad harder than Curiosity Killed The Lemming, but without a doubt much easier than Crossover Arena.


Also - more than half the levels are completed now! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

[namida]

All styles are now complete; so it's purely level design from this point onwards!

[namida]

Time to reveal another previously-kept-secret feature that LPIII is going to have.

This one was a staple in the Cheapo-based Lemmings Plus packs, but despite the capability existing, neither LPDOS nor LPII had it. Well, LPIII will feature the return of VGASPEC-type levels! Or well, in this case, literally VGASPEC levels. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> I won't reveal what the theme of them is, though all four do share a common theme. The Rough one might be a bit too obscure for most of you to recognise; the other three you should all at least be aware of the origins of.

This has actually been true for quite some time - the first one of them was made around the same time as I was remaking the Sega levels (in fact, it was noticing how easy making a VGASPEC for Sixes Not was, that convinced me to do it). Originally I was only going to have two - one in Timid and one in Rough; owing to the fact that Dodgy and Fierce contain a frenzy each, but I decided in the end to go with a full set of four, one per rank.

The one in Timid also contains an extra twist, in line with the theme of the level itself, that some of you may see as a nice touch and others may want to kill me for. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> We'll see.


On a less interesting (maybe) note - Rough, which initially majorly lagged behind in terms of levels made (though not as badly as Fierce), has now actually caught up and has the most completed levels out of all ranks if you don't include the secret levels (and most-equal if you do)! This is partly due to me slightly reducing the intended difficulty of it, but more just because I've had quite a few good ideas lately that don't quite make it into Fierce, in most cases due to the levels being too short. Not that there aren't any short levels at all in Fierce, but any short levels making it into Fierce need to be exceptionally hard - Crossover Arena is one example of a level that I'd generally consider too short/small for Fierce, but was clearly too difficult to place in Rough (heck, I even felt it was too hard for early-Fierce).