Lemmings Plus III - Development Topic

mobius · June 13, 2014, 05:48:30 PM

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> you've really been on a roll this year. This really makes me want to design some of my own new styles. It's just tedious and tough to get motivated.
Btw, I fully plan to play all or as much as I'm able to solve of your latest packs. Just so busy with everything that I haven't gotten around yet. But these new ones look cool.

I would like to make a ruins style similar to what DynaLem mentioned, Clock [like tick-tock clock of Mario64], Computer innards, or underwater

If your comment about this strange-looking ZIP file is to surreptitiously reveal some cool new feature you made, just reveal the thing because, having a bout with viruses last year I'm not about to download any "strange-looking ZIP file"

also (about your comment on "project Capybara") thanks, I'll follow your advice. I won't be remaking too many levels from any one pack because there are so many anyway.

namida · June 13, 2014, 06:07:23 PM

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=1004.msg20765#msg20765">Quote from: möbius on 2014-06-13 11:48:30

If your comment about this strange-looking ZIP file is to surreptitiously reveal some cool new feature you made, just reveal the thing because, having a bout with viruses last year I'm not about to download any "strange-looking ZIP file"

I assure you it's nothing dangerous.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

Akseli · June 15, 2014, 03:52:56 PM

My solutions attached!

Timid 3 was quite tough for being a first rating level, but then again I think this pack is aiming to be a lot more challenging than earlier big level sets, right from the beginning, too. Dodgy 2 and 3 were really nice puzzles, but my favourite was Rough 1, every skill (assignment) had their important, efficient function (expect for the red herring bombers, obviously

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />) and at first I was confused because I thought that object to be a trap.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Overall I liked the new features/gimmicks and especially the steel mechanics, on the other hand ceiling check was something I need to get more used to when using NeoLemmix mechanics. I tried to search the secret a bit but you obviously always try to hide them in the most tricky places that need sometimes even more effort than solving the level itself.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

Looking pretty swell so far! Good luck with designing the whole bunch of harder levels.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

namida · June 15, 2014, 04:46:14 PM

About the secret: It can be reached with only two skills; ~~in fact there are at least three different combinations of two skills that will get you to it~~ or maybe not, I'm thinking of an older version of the level that had an extra skill that's no longer present, but there is still at least one way to get to it with two skills.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

Your solution to Dodgy 2 was pretty unique! I wouldn't call it a backroute, since it's similar in difficulty to the intended one, but it's definitely a unique route.

EDIT: I figure this post is the best one to put it in. xD The secret level is hidden in...

Quote

Rough 1.

Based on yours and DynaLem's comments about Timid 3, I've moved it's position in the full game to Timid 23 (was previously Timid 9).

By the way, to avoid too much backroutes and/or glitches etc, I'm probably going to want a couple of people to test it once it's complete but before release (in hindsight, I probably should've done this with LPII as well). If you're interested, let me know preferably via PM. No rush; it probably won't be ready for quite a while yet, especially with how difficult I'm aiming for Fierce to be. (As with LPII I'll release a second demo at some point; and that one will include some Fierce levels.)

namida · June 15, 2014, 07:49:27 PM

More work on the red style.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

I'm starting to think it looks kind of Martian-y, so I might make its proper name "Mars style".

EDIT: Made some more minor modifications to fit in with this idea. Specifically the entrance and exit. This very minor change actually makes the style feel a lot better, I reckon.

Wafflem · June 16, 2014, 05:45:00 AM

The Mars style looks very impressive now, especially the nice outer space touches that you added to the trapdoor and exit. Although I see a orange-white-green line on the outer-space area of the trapdoor. I'm very excited to see what else you will add to the style.

Thanks for moving the position of the Perfect Storm from Timid 9 to Timid 23. The level seems like a harder version of Danger 10 of LPDOS, "Keeping on Track."

Will there be repeat levels, or just semi-repeats (e.g. Floater Frenzy, The Upwards Mission)?

Akseli, I saw your replays. I wasn't sure if 100% is possible in the Perfect Storm, but it looks like your solution is close enough to getting 100%. Also, great use of tricks in Dodgy 2.

Here are my replays. I've showed them to namida, but I since improved the first two levels by saving 100% in both of them, and in Timid 2's case, used a certain trick from Medi 6.

namida · June 16, 2014, 10:14:48 AM

100% is possible in The Perfect Storm, just. Unless I'm missing something, one less builder and it wouldn't be. I'm not sure either way about Dodgy 1 (haven't really looked into it), it's not possible AFAIK on Dodgy 3, the remaining levels are all 100%able (with Dodgy 2, Rough 1 and the secret level *requiring* it).

Same deal as with LPII as far as repeats go. They won't be a regular thing like in Orig/LPDOS, but levels sharing a common theme (like Floater Frenzy, Upwards/Downwards Mission, -Tuned Lemming levels) might happen. And I will probably have a once-per-rank level again, as I've said, with more similarity to No Salvation than to Floater Frenzy.

EDIT: Just had a go at 100% on Dodgy 1. It's possible.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> (For a semi-challenge, try to do it without blockers.)

Minim · June 16, 2014, 10:57:12 AM

I had a go at your demo. Very innovative use of gimmicks and features!

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> That's what a sequel is all about.

I solved all except for Timid 3 (which as we know, is too hard for its difficulty) and Rough 1. When I gave up I saw the replays from both players and were very impressed with their solution to Rough 1! I found another solution to Dodgy 1 (This one takes the left route as opposed to DynaLem & Akseli's right, backroute maybe?). I copied DynaLem's method for Dodgy 2 and Akseli's for Dodgy 3.

namida · June 16, 2014, 11:05:25 AM

I'm aware of that solution (actually, I discovered it about 10 minutes after I released the demo xD), and was at one point considering removing it, but I think it's fine. I think the easier solution is somewhat balanced by the increased difficulty of crowd control on that side, especially since the level is not very lenient on how many lemmings you can lose. In fact, in general LPIII isn't too lenient on that. Ironically, aside from the Frenzy, the most lenient level so far is actually in Fierce. xD (It's because just *getting* a significant number of lemmings to the exit is hard enough that I didn't see a need to require you to save every lemming that you possibly can.)

namida · June 16, 2014, 12:57:08 PM

Based on the feedback for Timid 3 - as well as the difficulties people have observed in 100%ing it - I've moved it to Rough and upped the requirement to, of course, 100%. Destructive skills also dropped to 1 of each (builders is still 20). Also I was somewhat mistaken in what I said before about it needing every builder - it can be done (even with the new skillset) with only 19.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

I also just made a level based on a really clever trick I thought of the other day (it works equally well in both traditional and NeoLemmix, so it's not based on obscure new mechanics

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />). I'm not going to say for sure I'm the first to think of it, but I've definitely never seen any levels using it before.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> Assuming I don't move it, the level to look out for is Dodgy 22; I'll almost certianly include it in the second demo. (I might move it to Rough, or if people find it difficult enough to get the trick, possibly even Fierce.)

EDIT: I already decided to move it to Rough 8, but I'll quite possibly end up moving it again.
EDIT: Indeed. I've moved it into Fierce now. (Fierce 15)

namida · June 17, 2014, 02:24:51 AM

And finally, every rank has a Level 1 now.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> Just made Fierce 1, although still ironing out backroutes and fine-tuning the solution so it works tidily. The level's title is "Curiosity Killed The Lemming", and as the name ever so vaguely implies, it's a Martian style level.

EDIT: And it's completed now (apart from adding some more decorative elements - what I mean is, the functional elements of the level are complete). I should probably note on that subject - a level being included in the completed level statistics actually just refers to the functionl elements, a few levels marked as "completed" still need further decoration.

I've also added teleporters to the Martian style. Unlike the fairly slow ones in the circuit style, these ones operate very quickly. (By comparison - the highest release rate at which the circuit ones will get every lemming without fail is 49; for the martian ones it's 87.) Still deciding which other object types I'm going to add (so far it has exit, window, one way left/right (still need to add one-way down), water and teleporters - also I'm adding secret triggers and pre-placed lemmings to *all* graphic sets so those will be added at some point).

Wafflem · June 17, 2014, 06:31:51 PM

Will there also be pickup skills in every style?

namida · June 17, 2014, 06:45:55 PM

Yep, those too.

Wafflem · June 17, 2014, 07:05:00 PM

I'm thinking low-gravity zones would be perfect for the Martian style, too.

namida · June 17, 2014, 07:50:32 PM

Another new level in the martian style.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> Rough's the only rank left that doesn't have a martian level yet (though it was a very close call whether this one went into Dodgy or Rough - the deciding factor came down to that it would've only been early Rough, it's a 2-of-everything level, and Rough 5 is already one of those). I will mention that it is one of those levels that's not quite as hard as it looks.

I think I also need to think about the pickup skills more. Out of the 23 levels I've made so far, Extra Skill Required is the only one that uses them. Although I suppose the pre-placed lemmings aren't too common yet either; I'm sure there's more but off the top of my head I can only think of "Party In The Skies" (a late-Dodgy level (actually it immediately follows the level in the attached image

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> ), I'm planning to include this one in the second demo) and "Viva Las Lemmine".