SuperLemmini 0.104a

[Tsyu]

So mine does not fail on bang.wav like most people. I followed your instructions on the command prompt and apparently tree.txt does exist in the src file (since terminal didn't raise an error message when I typed the command), and I can absolutely assure you both of the files I used exist in those locations specified.

Can you attach the tree.txt file? I might get some valuable information if I look at it.

As I downloaded the last SuperLemmini version together with "Prince Jamie Super Challenge Pack" (link: http://sta.sh/0200tf2xesh), everything worked fine. The pack adds a few objects to certain tilesets and places these into the dedicated mod folder.
After the recent update, SuperLemmini tells me that the rest of the tiles and objects were missing via an error message and it seems that it expects the whole tilesets to be in the mod folder rather than just adding the new objects. For now I could fix this on my own by copying the Lemmini tilsets into the mod folder aswell, but now some replays are not working anymore due to different trap trigger areas.
This seems like a new bug to me that SuperLemmini doesn't count the mod files as a simple addition to the standard tilsets anymore.

Actually, the problem is related to case sensitivity. Specifically, it's due to the levels in that pack not using all-lowercase style names, LZP files using a case-sensitive file structure, your file system using a case-insensitive one, the [style name].ini file that's in use being located in that case-insensitive file system, and some files of the style being located in the case-sensitive LZP file. This combination of conditions is causing the hack that I mentioned earlier to fail. So, basically, I need to implement a good way of working around case sensitivity.

[Colorful Arty]

Here is the tree.txt file.

[Tsyu]

You were trying to extract from the SuperLemmini source code; you need to extract from the Windows version of Lemmings instead. (And no, you don't have a file called "BLINK.SPR", at least not where you're trying to extract from.)

I suppose your confusion is that the first text field asks for a "source" folder, and you thought that meant the source code of SuperLemmini. I will change the text field's label in the next version to avoid confusing other users in this manner.

[Colorful Arty]

So is there any practical purpose for the src file, or is it just for making mods?

[Tsyu]

You mean the src folder? That contains SuperLemmini's source code, which is used to compile the binary code* that users run. It's distributed because SuperLemmini is open source, which basically means the source code is made available for anyone to look at, modify, and distribute. For more information, see the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_software

Source code is of little or no use to those who just want to play or make content. That's why it's a separate download.


*Well, with Java programs, it's technically bytecode, but the idea is the same.

[Colorful Arty]

Well, that explains A LOT. I was trying to extract from the src file. No wonder it failed...

[phicr]

Hello! I was introduced to SuperLemmini by Psychedelic Eyeball's new let's play and have been having lots of fun with it!

I came here to report some odd behaviour that may be bugs (replays showing them off attached).

In Taxing 4, "Lend a helping hand...", I've met failure in two different ways trying to mine a pillar near the top of the screen. Once the lemming mined nothing, went right through a staircase and fell into his death. The other time he made a path and exited the level, but left a pixel wide part of the wall keeping the other lemmings from following him.

In Bonus 8, "Don't make the wrong choice!", the exit seems to be a little above the ground. Thankfully I had an extra Builder, but it seems odd that I needed it. I've only seen the Sega Master System version of the level, which differs in some significant ways, so apologies if that's intended/replicating the original.

Thanks for the hard work so far!

[namida]

In Bonus 8, "Don't make the wrong choice!", the exit seems to be a little above the ground. Thankfully I had an extra Builder, but it seems odd that I needed it. I've only seen the Sega Master System version of the level, which differs in some significant ways, so apologies if that's intended/replicating the original.

The direct level rip from the Budget Amiga version has this issue too. I don't know if this was an error in the ripping, or in the original level design.

[Tsyu]

In Taxing 4, "Lend a helping hand...", I've met failure in two different ways trying to mine a pillar near the top of the screen. Once the lemming mined nothing, went right through a staircase and fell into his death. The other time he made a path and exited the level, but left a pixel wide part of the wall keeping the other lemmings from following him.

SuperLemmini intentionally mimics the Amiga version's behavior of not removing terrain (that includes builder steps) if the miner is extremely close to the top of the level. I did, however, find during testing that SuperLemmini is a little bit off in mimicking this--I'll have it fixed in the next version. (Your replay examples still won't work as you intend because the miners still start too high, even for the Amiga version.)

Keep in mind that the intended solution is to build up through the hole that has the spike traps. It may look impossible, but the traps only activate if a lemming is in a specific spot. (It's not like in the original Lemmini, where lemmings die if they go anywhere near the spike traps.)

In Bonus 8, "Don't make the wrong choice!", the exit seems to be a little above the ground. Thankfully I had an extra Builder, but it seems odd that I needed it. I've only seen the Sega Master System version of the level, which differs in some significant ways, so apologies if that's intended/replicating the original.

I double-checked the Amiga version that has this level to verify whether the same thing happens there (I thought it did). It turns out that, while there was still a thin gap between the exit and the ground, the lemmings could enter it without any builder steps. I even hacked the level into a savestate of the standard Amiga version and got the same result. It looks like I need to check the Amiga version's object trigger areas and make sure SuperLemmini's trigger areas match those.

[namida]

SuperLemmini intentionally mimics the Amiga version's behavior of not removing terrain (that includes builder steps) if the miner is extremely close to the top of the level. I did, however, find during testing that SuperLemmini is a little bit off in mimicking this--I'll have it fixed in the next version. (Your replay examples still won't work as you intend because the miners still start too high, even for the Amiga version.)

Are you sure this is a behaviour you want to replicate...?

[phicr]

SuperLemmini intentionally mimics the Amiga version's behavior of not removing terrain (that includes builder steps) if the miner is extremely close to the top of the level. I did, however, find during testing that SuperLemmini is a little bit off in mimicking this--I'll have it fixed in the next version. (Your replay examples still won't work as you intend because the miners still start too high, even for the Amiga version.)

Keep in mind that the intended solution is to build up through the hole that has the spike traps. It may look impossible, but the traps only activate if a lemming is in a specific spot. (It's not like in the original Lemmini, where lemmings die if they go anywhere near the spike traps.)

Thanks for looking into it! I am aware that that wasn't the intended solution, I just like finding alternate ones. (which paid off, since I helped find a bug!)
I did manage to mine the pillar and clear the level by building the ladder a little lower.

If you have any use for them, here are all my replays: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/oqvritvifsyh44w/AACOnu-R1y5Q-WD-rx2V5wXna?dl=0
They are labelled <difficulty>_<level number>_<lemmings saved %>_<OptionalRandomComment>_<level_name>
You could check if there are any where I got a percentage higher than I was supposed to be able to. (or something)

Are you sure this is a behaviour you want to replicate...?

As a user, I personally like that this version mimics the original because it makes my solutions feel "portable" (even if someone shows me a version where it doesn't work, I can say "hey, that's your version's fault, mine is like the original!!!!!1!")
Dunno if that's just me, though. Maybe a "optional bugfixes" mode or something?

[Tsyu]

Here's another bugfix release (0.102b) before I make any changes that alter gameplay:

• Changed the WINLEMM text field label on the extraction dialog to avoid using the word "source", which confused some users into thinking they had to extract from the SuperLemmini source code.
• Image types are no longer dependent on the system configuration. This will hopefully prevent flipped objects and terrain pieces from having altered colors.
• Fixed a crash that occurred during extraction if the destination folder didn't exist.
• If the game is paused and the player does something that ends replay mode (such as clicking the game area), replay mode now ends immediately rather than after the game is unpaused.

(Yes, I said that I would fix the miner in this release, but I decided to wait until I change the object trigger areas to match the Amiga version. Each of these can break some replays, and I'd rather break them once rather than twice.)

Are you sure this is a behaviour you want to replicate...?

As a user, I personally like that this version mimics the original because it makes my solutions feel "portable" (even if someone shows me a version where it doesn't work, I can say "hey, that's your version's fault, mine is like the original!!!!!1!")
Dunno if that's just me, though. Maybe a "optional bugfixes" mode or something?

The reactions here seem mixed so far, so I will keep this behavior unless more people want me to remove it.

[IchoTolot]

The original Lemmings games were great, yes, BUT in terms of behaviors and physics they were an inconsistant bugfest!

Old Lemmix replicates the DOS version and in the early states even with totally broken "original" stuff like the nuke glitch.
In NeoLemmix and Lix we try to fix those old issues and aim for clean mostly consistant and logical physics.
The original games are broken as hell and desperately needed those fixes!

I would highly recommend leaving the original bugs ,glitches and odd behaviors behind and aim for sth better! It is 100% worth it, if you take nostalgia glasses off and see the old problems

[phicr]

The reactions here seem mixed so far, so I will keep this behavior unless more people want me to remove it.

Oh, please don't let my comment influence your work by itself. I only expressed my opinion to see if more people agree, but I myself don't feel that strongly about the issue, I will certainly survive and adapt if it changes.

I would highly recommend leaving the original bugs ,glitches and odd behaviors behind and aim for sth better! It is 100% worth it, if you take nostalgia glasses off and see the old problems

It was less nostalgia glasses in my case and more that I am WAY too proud of my lemmings achievements, after beating the game while only having memories of pain and sorrow from my childhood with the SNES version. I am sure that after my excitement dies a little, I will agree with you.

[grams88]

Welcome to the forum Phicr

Hope a lot of people can get the superlemmini to work, I hear there has been a bit of problems but hopefully nothing too bad or something that can be fixed easily.