Mike! I want to ask you...

[Mike]

A lemming was allowed to fall 60 pixels before he splatted. Any other number, and it was a hacked copy.

There was never any editor released, so any version with an editor is also a hacked copy.

On frame 1 of the explosion (when the background is removed, and the lemming starts to fly apart), the blocker collision is removed. Windows Lemmings was a "C" rewrite, so it might have bugs/new features in it that were missed. Its fairly simple to convert 68000 into x86, but when coding into a high level language, you sometimes miss bits.

This is the Amiga (and probably the PC DOS) behavior. The PC version was a line for line (virtually) conversion of the Amiga one.

 B)

[guest]

A lemming was allowed to fall 60 pixels before he splatted.

Close.  But examining the screenshot in "The Lemmings Solution" site shows that the distance actually seems to be 66 pixels rather than 60.

Still, Mike's statement would strongly implicate that custlemm hacked the falling distance.  Yet another reason to curse VTM.

[DragonsLover]

Yaay! Mike is back!

And what about this, Mike:

1.Why there's some different version of original Lemmings under Dos? Here's the thing I mean with "version":
a. First level music reappears on other levels when there's a failure
b. Cheat code and Version number code don't work
c. Falling from too high height isn't the same
Why?

2. Was Customized Lemmings release on a CD? And why the CD tracks play in this order while playing the game: 9 - 10 - 11 - 13 - 14 - 7? Do you know?

Sorry to give you more questions to answer... Let's hope that it doesn't disturb you!

[Mike]

I have answered these. There was only 1 version of Lemmings released on DOS (as far as I know), and so all others were either cracks, hacks, or extensions but persons unknown.  

In which case, Ive no idea as it wasnt done by us.

[guest]

I believe I already said Mike probably won't be able to answer your second question, since custlemm is not an official version of Lemmings.  Unless he happens to know some code from some game of Lemmings that happen to use CD tracks in that order.

And even then, maybe the CD track order was hacked too.  For all I know, maybe those tracks were the the favorite songs from the hacker's favorite CD in his favorite order.  Maybe that's what he likes to listen to while playtesting custlemm to make sure his hacks didn't break the thing.  

[Proxima]

Close.  But examining the screenshot in "The Lemmings Solution" site shows that the distance actually seems to be 66 pixels rather than 60.

That seems a bit high to me..... looking at "Many lemmings make level work" (3 Crazy), the second drop is 70 pixels, and from what I remember you have to bomb right on the corner to make it survivable, so the maximum safe fall distance ought to be 62......

[Timballisto]

I counted it once pixel by pixel once on we all fall down, and I came up with a number and wrote it down somewhere.  I'll have to find it.

[guest]

That seems a bit high to me..... looking at "Many lemmings make level work" (3 Crazy), the second drop is 70 pixels, and from what I remember you have to bomb right on the corner to make it survivable, so the maximum safe fall distance ought to be 62......

That's not a good test, since with a bomber and nothing else you are basically forced to eliminate a minimum amount of height on the fall.  You can only conclude that 70 is too high and 62 is low enough, but nothing about the heights in between.

The reason "We All Fall Down" is perfect is because the digger lowers the fall height pixel-by-pixel, making it very easy to tell.  My assumption is that lowering the height by 1 pixel on that level should be enough, but I could remember wrong.

"Steel works" would have been even better, except it's too hard to tell where exactly they start falling from.

-----------

Oh, and I miscalculated, it should be 65.  

[guest]

That's not a good test

Never mind, I"m an idiot, I see what you mean now.

[guest]

That being said, I don't know how reliable it is to depend on bomber location.  The curved side of a bomb hole is fairly steep, so you have to be extremely precise in your bomber placement to conclude for sure that you really can't be off by 1 pixel.

[guest]

Ok, I took a measurement on Fun 11.  The fatal drop there is 68 pixels, and I seem to remember you need to build 5 steps to make the fall safe.  So this would mean 63 pixels.

So I guess you do need to dig down a little more than I remembered in "We All Fall Down".

[Proxima]

That's ambiguous, though, because I'm not sure how you are measuring the fall. For clarity, I measure it from the pixel above the upper ground to the pixel below the lower ground.

A little experimenting with the first drop on 3 Crazy shows that they can survive when the drop is 62 pixels but not when it's 64. My earlier figure may have been one off because of the larger bomb explosion area on Cheapo. So it looks like we agree.....

[guest]

That's ambiguous, though, because I'm not sure how you are measuring the fall. For clarity, I measure it from the pixel above the upper ground to the pixel below the lower ground.

Um, so it sounds like a non-falling lemming still counts as a 1-pixel fall in your system I think......  O_o

The way I measure it is effectively counting the height of the cliff.  So this is a 3-pixel fall for example (X = pixels of ground):

XXX
XXX
XXX
XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX

My earlier figure may have been one off because of the larger bomb explosion area on Cheapo.

You can't possibly be testing with Cheapo.  Cheapo's max safe-fall distance is even higher than CustLemm's, and Custlemm's already higher than the original unadulterated Lemming's.

Unless you're mixing the bomb explosion mask of Cheapo with the screenshot from "The Lemmings Solution" site or something.  ::

[DragonsLover]

It's crazy! =8O

60, 62, 63, 65, 70... O_o

[Timballisto]

Yeah this is kind of insane.  Someone needs to simply open lemmings & lemedit, make a cliff starting at 60 pixels high and then test all of the figures Dragon stated.