Mike! I want to ask you...

[Shvegait]

The trap door thing sounds like a bug, one we never noticed.

In ONML!, Havoc 12 "It's all a matter of timing" uses three windows, and the level is set up in such a way that takes advantage of twice as many lemmings coming out of the second window. Then again, that was ONML!, not the original Lemmings, but still, the original Lemming has "Triple Trouble" which has three windows... not sure if there are others off-hand.

My guess is that the game treats it like there are always 4 windows, but of course you would know better than me, this is just a guess.

1 window: 1, 1, 1, 1
2 windows: 1, 2, 1, 2
3 windows: 1, 2, 3, 2
4 windows: 1, 2, 3, 4

[guest]

My guess is that the game treats it like there are always 4 windows, but of course you would know better than me, this is just a guess.

LOL in case it's not obvious from Mike's replies, a lot of details can be forgotten after 14+ years.  

There's always the possibility to try to find certain things out by yourself, especially now you have DOSBox which makes screen capturing fairly easy, and LemEdit to create specific levels for testing specific stuff.  And there's probably some setting in DOSBox that allows you to slow down time (hopefully), in which case you can really just count the frames--if you have the patience.

[guest]

Also keep in mind that the numbers you are seeking are, in some cases (or possibly many), particular to the PC version of Lemmings.  But there are many many ports of Lemmings out there, and while the PC version might be the most widely played one, it's not even really the "original" one per se.

Things like max safe fall distance or min turnaround wall heights will probably vary on different platforms depending on what screen resolutions are supported, for example.

Of course, I suppose the PC version does have the compelling advantage that it is the only version where a known, usable level editor is publicly available.

[Proxima]

In ONML!, Havoc 12 "It's all a matter of timing" uses three windows, and the level is set up in such a way that takes advantage of twice as many lemmings coming out of the second window. Then again, that was ONML!, not the original Lemmings, but still, the original Lemming has "Triple Trouble" which has three windows... not sure if there are others off-hand.

Is it possible that a sneaky level designer placed two windows one above the other so that they look like one? That's how I'd get that effect in a Cheapo level..........

[Shvegait]

Is it possible that a sneaky level designer placed two windows one above the other so that they look like one? That's how I'd get that effect in a Cheapo level..........

Of course it's possible, but completely unnecessary! There's no reason to believe the designer placed an extra window, since I'm sure they would have been aware of the behavior from either "Triple Trouble" or experimentation.

Actually, this theory can be tested. Open the level up in LemEdit and see for yourself...

[Conway]

Or simply create a level with three trap doors . . .

[Shvegait]

Oh. That's if you're testing the mechanics behind it. I'm positive it works 1,2,3,2... But I guess others might not be convinced (even though there are 0 counterexamples to this rule, just look at all the user-designed levels with 3 trapdoors.)

But if you're wondering if the designers actually put the 4th window in that particular level, you'd have to open the particular level to find out...

[?QuErY?]

There's an awful lot about counting frames here and I happen to have an interesting trick... In winlemm, look in the folder where all the main game files are(on the disc), and there should be a folder named 'GFX'. Look in there and you can find a .bmp with at least most of the animation frames in it!

[Timballisto]

Yeah, I saw that too...

hey...

where has Mike been anyway?

[DragonsLover]

Mike:

1.Why there's some different version of original Lemmings under Dos? Here's the thing I mean with "version":
1. First level music reappears on other levels when there's a failure
2. Cheat code and Version number code don't work
3. Falling from too high height isn't the same
Why?

2. Was Customized Lemmings release on a CD? And why the CD tracks play in this order while playing the game: 9 - 10 - 11 - 13 - 14 - 7? Do you know?

Let's hope that you'll come back here soon, Mike!

[Timballisto]

Do you think he would respond to an email?

[DragonsLover]

Dunno! Just try!

[guest]

1.Why there's some different version of original Lemmings under Dos? Here's the thing I mean with "version":
1. First level music reappears on other levels when there's a failure
2. Cheat code and Version number code don't work

Are you sure they are "official" versions, as opposed to cracked versions?

3. Falling from too high height isn't the same

Wow, a DOS version that does this?  That's a new.

Are you sure about this?  I guess "We All Fall Down" would be the litmus test.

Again, if it's a DOS version where you don't have to do anything to solve "We All Fall Down", I'm inclined to say your copy is a cracked copy that changes more than the copy protection......

2. Was Customized Lemmings release on a CD? And why the CD tracks play in this order while playing the game: 9 - 10 - 11 - 13 - 14 - 7? Do you know?

I doubt it.  Customized lemmings is a hacked version of the EXE from ONML I believe.  I very much doubt it was ever released in any format except as a download--it would take money and time to make and distribute CDs and you can't legally charge anyone for the program, so it just won't be worth anyone's time to do release it on a CD.  I have no idea about the CD track orders--but it's possible (though completely speculative) that the hacker might have hacked in music-playing code from some other game that happens to have this CD track order.  (I seem to recall the L2 Tribes demo has a long, technical readme about CD playback, I wonder if custlemm ripped code from the L2 demo?)

In short, I highly doubt that Mike would know anything about the CustLemm question, and perhaps not much about the first question either.  Remember, he didn't even know about LemEdit until I mentioned it to him when he was talking about his Amiga floppy with DMA's official level editor.

[Andi]

Wow, a DOS version that does this?  That's a new.

Are you sure about this?  I guess "We All Fall Down" would be the litmus test.

Yeah, I once played it. In the first Level of Mayhem the Lemmings can fall down and won't be hurt.

[Shvegait]

Sort of related...

On my (cracked) version of Lemmings, the safe fall height seems to be normal.

But then I played Conway's "We All Fall Down" challenge level (fewer diggers), the lemmings safely landed in CustLemm. Now, I can't say for sure that the level layouts are the same in both cases... but if they are, then CustLemm has a greater safe fall distance than the regular Lemmings...