Lemmings Revolution PSX - is it out there?

[Prob Lem]

I finally got Lemmings Revolution working and behaving itself in WINE. It's long been a curiousity to me, and it's great to finally play it. I'd thought that the PlayStation version was only a rumour fuelled by a retailer (possibly accidentally) listing it back in the day, until I started writing this post; I was originally going to ask if it ever really existed, but searching beforehand answered that, and what I found has got me wondering.

Whilst trying to pull my info together for this post, I saw that it was mentioned most significantly http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=594.msg13794#msg13794" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">on this very forum. I found GuyPerfect's speculation about what happened to be pretty plausible;

I went looking in that old demo of undisclosed origin, where the default language is German and only has one level: Feeling Gravity's Pull. The "email.box" file there has the Playstation button icons, the fully-translated .LTX files that made it into the final game and, get this: the LEVELMAP.DAT file is identical to the one in the final game. All level names are there--all 103 of them. This was the oldest build of the game I've come across--it doesn't have any music even--and at that point in time apparently all of the levels were already done.

There's no telling how this all happened. They obviously had a lot of work done on it before even submitting a build as a demo. I expect it went something like this:

• Sony/Psygnosis commissions a new 3D-graphics Lemmings game for Playstation.
• Take-Two Interactive takes the job, or possibly pitched the publisher the idea. One or the other.
• Lemmings Revolution is completed or nearly completed as a Playstation title.
• Sony, being scumbags as they are, decides the game isn't worth publishing. I mean, it's not exactly exceptional.
• Take-Two reworks the game for Microsoft Windows 95.
• Sony/Psygnosis releases a demo on their web site to see what kind of appeal the game has.
• Sony decides the game still isn't worth publishing, even for Windows.
• Take-Two Interactive contacts Talonsoft to publish it instead.

Since it seems evident that Talonsoft created the PlayStation version first (not just from the above, but from some oddities I've noticed in the final game relating to the controls, and to texture-warping when zoomed), and that it therefore really did exist, my question is this: Is it out there anywhere, and if not, have any efforts yet been made to find it? (It would certainly make emulating it on portable devices that don't use x86 processors, which is most of them, a damn sight easier, so I'd love to know. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />)

I mean, hey, the Master System and Game Gear versions of Lemmings 2 turned up, right? What's to say this one can't be dug up, as well?

[mobius]

I finally got Lemmings Revolution working and behaving itself in WINE. It's long been a curiousity to me, and it's great to finally play it. I'd thought that the PlayStation version was only a rumour fuelled by a retailer (possibly accidentally) listing it back in the day, until I started writing this post; I was originally going to ask if it ever really existed, but searching beforehand answered that, and what I found has got me wondering.

Whilst trying to pull my info together for this post, I saw that it was mentioned most significantly http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=594.msg13794#msg13794" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">on this very forum. I found GuyPerfect's speculation about what happened to be pretty plausible;

I went looking in that old demo of undisclosed origin, where the default language is German and only has one level: Feeling Gravity's Pull. The "email.box" file there has the Playstation button icons, the fully-translated .LTX files that made it into the final game and, get this: the LEVELMAP.DAT file is identical to the one in the final game. All level names are there--all 103 of them. This was the oldest build of the game I've come across--it doesn't have any music even--and at that point in time apparently all of the levels were already done.

There's no telling how this all happened. They obviously had a lot of work done on it before even submitting a build as a demo. I expect it went something like this:

• Sony/Psygnosis commissions a new 3D-graphics Lemmings game for Playstation.
• Take-Two Interactive takes the job, or possibly pitched the publisher the idea. One or the other.
• Lemmings Revolution is completed or nearly completed as a Playstation title.
• Sony, being scumbags as they are, decides the game isn't worth publishing. I mean, it's not exactly exceptional.
• Take-Two reworks the game for Microsoft Windows 95.
• Sony/Psygnosis releases a demo on their web site to see what kind of appeal the game has.
• Sony decides the game still isn't worth publishing, even for Windows.
• Take-Two Interactive contacts Talonsoft to publish it instead.

Since it seems evident that Talonsoft created the PlayStation version first (not just from the above, but from some oddities I've noticed in the final game relating to the controls, and to texture-warping when zoomed), and that it therefore really did exist, my question is this: Is it out there anywhere, and if not, have any efforts yet been made to find it? (It would certainly make emulating it on portable devices that don't use x86 processors, which is most of them, a damn sight easier, so I'd love to know. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />)

I mean, hey, the Master System and Game Gear versions of Lemmings 2 turned up, right? What's to say this one can't be dug up, as well?

I don't know why I just thought of this--but this may be a large part of why the game has so many glitches--it was originally designed for an entirely different system; not a computer.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />

You probably already read but on  lemmings encyclopedia there's a bunch of info, I don't remember why the guy got, about the creation of this game. Wait, actually if memory serves he somehow managed to interview one of the creators! I emailed him a long time ago with no response.
The story went something like; what Guy says; then when they finally got the OK to release it for PC they were forced to rush to convert it and get it done.

I'm not aware that an actual Playstation playable version exists, but if it did--it may be more rare than the Cheetahmen2!
Someone with the time, knowledge and inclination might be able to make it from the data that Guy got, but yeah, doubt anyone will want to do that.

[Prob Lem]

I don't know why I just thought of this--but this may be a large part of why the game has so many glitches--it was originally designed for an entirely different system; not a computer.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />

If it was rushed over, that's definitely logical.

You probably already read but on  lemmings encyclopedia there's a bunch of info, I don't remember why the guy got, about the creation of this game. Wait, actually if memory serves he somehow managed to interview one of the creators! I emailed him a long time ago with no response.
The story went something like; what Guy says; then when they finally got the OK to release it for PC they were forced to rush to convert it and get it done.

I didn't read that yet! I'll go and take a look, now. Thanks for the heads-up! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

EDIT: Huh, I couldn't find it... D'you have a link, by any chance, please?

I'm not aware that an actual Playstation playable version exists, but if it did--it may be more rare than the Cheetahmen2!
Someone with the time, knowledge and inclination might be able to make it from the data that Guy got, but yeah, doubt anyone will want to do that.

I'm unsure if that's possible, myself, but my thinking is that (again, taking Guy's surmising of the events that transpired as the starting point) if the game was complete or near-complete prior to being ported over to Microsoft Windows, then at some point a prototype must have existed. Testing would've been done on real hardware (if you've ever seen those navy blue-cased PlayStation units, that was their purpose - they could run burned discs much as mod-chipped consoles could, and were part of the dev-kit for the system), so at some point, one or more builds had to have existed on CD-Rs. Whether they, or the code they were burned from, still exist, is what I'm wondering about...

Incidentally, I was going through the old news entries at http://lemnet.tripod.com/english-chronicles/index-2.html" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">The Lemnet Chronicles, which charted the events surrounding Lemmings Revolution's release as they were going on, and spotted a really, really old screenshot http://lemnet.tripod.com/english-chronicles/news-17-02-2000-16.49.html" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">that looks significantly different from all of the others;

http://i.imgur.com/4kUFhWt.jpg" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

This is the only one that doesn't look like it's from the Windows version - it's got a real PlayStation-esque look to the cylinder and the textures. The HUD is different (and also seems to be trapped on the cylinder itself), and it seems to pre-date the inclusion of the water and acid lemmings, as it features the traditional brown wooden trapdoor-box, instead of one colour-coded to the lemming types in play. Also, I'm not sure if that level style even exists in the final game. I've watched a lot of videos of Revolution on YouTube before now, and I've not yet seen anything like it there.

[ccexplore]

Wow, that unusual screenshot looks much nicer than the eventual finished product IMO. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" /> It's too bad the finished product on PC did not go in that direction graphics-wise. (though perhaps part of it might have to do with the poorer performance of PC graphics hardware back in the day?)

[Prob Lem]

Wow, that unusual screenshot looks much nicer than the eventual finished product IMO. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" /> It's too bad the finished product on PC did not go in that direction graphics-wise. (though perhaps part of it might have to do with the poorer performance of PC graphics hardware back in the day?)

It's also a tiny bit reminiscent of the look of some of the early levels in Lomax. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

[mobius]

sorry it was not Lemming Encylopdia but Lemmings Universe:
http://www.lemmingsuniverse.net/interview.html" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.lemmingsuniverse.net/interview.html
after browsing it again I don't find what I thought I remembered. It may have been from something else...
One interesting thing he said was they made a total of 200 levels! They of course, picked only the best to go in the game. I really want to see the missing levels though...  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" />
also there's this 'history':
http://tle.vaarties.nl/revolution/history/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://tle.vaarties.nl/revolution/history/

Amazing find with that picture!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> thanks for the link to LemNetChronicals. I like seeing in-development pics. That might be the site where I read something about the production being hustled. Anyway it makes me sad to read about the things planned for the game that didn't make it to the PC release  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cry.gif" alt=":'(" title="Cry" class="smiley" />
"A level editor bundled with the game"

I find the 'warped' pics strange. One of these is on the game box even though it never appears like that in the actual game. It's the level "take her up to warp speed captain".

also if you need any help solving the levels, I'm here http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

[Prob Lem]

sorry it was not Lemming Encylopdia but Lemmings Universe:
http://www.lemmingsuniverse.net/interview.html" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.lemmingsuniverse.net/interview.html
after browsing it again I don't find what I thought I remembered. It may have been from something else...
One interesting thing he said was they made a total of 200 levels! They of course, picked only the best to go in the game. I really want to see the missing levels though...  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" />
also there's this 'history':
http://tle.vaarties.nl/revolution/history/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://tle.vaarties.nl/revolution/history/

Thanks for the links. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

There's a couple of quotes in the interview that both date it and seem a little sad with the benefit of hindsight;

Q: Do you think any new Lemmings games will be released in the future?
A: If I had to say, I would say yes. It is such a huge license that I cannot see how the game could be just left in a cupbaord somewhere. Lemmings is a seminal puzzler loved by all - a return to what made Lemmings great would be ideal. I am sure someone somewhere is thinking how to bring Lemmings into the new millenium.

Q: Why do you think the Lemmings game series has been so long lasting (many sequels)?
A: Well it is a wonderful puzzle game which in my opinion, is yet to be beaten. Delightful stuff. I just hope we haven't seen the last of the series.

These two, specifically. How was he to know that Lemmings Revolution would be the last well and truly new Lemmings game until Lemmings Touch, which itself has slipped at least one release date now and is making some folks skittish that it's been cancelled? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cry.gif" alt=":'(" title="Cry" class="smiley" />

I find the 'warped' pics strange. One of these is on the game box even though it never appears like that in the actual game. It's the level "take her up to warp speed captain".

Warped? I'm not too far into the game yet and don't know what you mean, here. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" /> Sadly, I don't have the box, either...

also if you need any help solving the levels, I'm here http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

Thanks, but I hope I'll be alright on my own, haha. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />