NeoLemmix (Player: V1.26n-C | Editor: V1.26n-B)

[Wafflem]

I have some more ideas for gimmicks:
1. Turn around skill – when a lemming is assigned a skill, they immediately turn around before performing the skill. This is essentially assigning a walker and another skill at the same time.
2. Flip the exit and the entrance around; in other words, lemmings come out of the exit as if it were the entrance, and treat the trapdoor as if it were the exit. Although I could simply achieve that by making the entrance and exit fake objects, then putting an invisible entrance and exit behind them... This is just an idea, as it looks like you can only have so many gimmicks in the editor.
3. Radiation Stoner - lemmings become Stoners after touching the Radiation object and counting down. Unless you'll just create a new object specifically for that?
4. Harmful Bomber/Stoner - if a lemming explodes, any lemming within the vicinity of the bomber will be killed by the blast. This also applies to stoners.
5. Upside-down lemmings?

I have some ideas for lemmings that can be used in all styles:
1. Gold lemmings – these are required to beat the level.  They are pre-placed lemmings. For example, in a level of five gold lemmings, even if you reach the 90% of the requirement of regular lemmings but not all of the gold lemmings are saved, the level will not be beaten. The Karoshi gimmick will also apply to this; all gold lemmings must also die in order for the level to be beaten.
2. Evil lemmings - these are colored red with black hair. They are pre-placed lemmings and they can also be pre-assigned a permanent skill/blocker. However, you cannot assign a skill to them during gameplay. Their behavior is the same as that of a regular lemming, including how they die; however, if an evil lemming touches a regular lemming, both of them will explode. Evil lemmings cannot exit the level; they are only there to hurt the regular lemmings.

LemmixPlayerExtraNeo:
1. Use the Genesis music for the Genesis-Sunsoft ratings.
2. Use the LPDOS music for the SEGA levels.
3. I remember Proxima discussing about the two Genesis 2-player levels. While I haven't found the level files for those, the closest thing I can get to so far is these YouTube videos:

Now use miners and climbers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP_-9QkZY1Q" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP_-9QkZY1Q
A task for blockers and bomber: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJJkDnQdmrY" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJJkDnQdmrY

[namida]

Gimmick ideas:
1. Turn around skill - I could possibly do this one, although aside from graphical features, it wouldn't be much different from Backwards Walkers. I'll add it to the list to consider.
2. Entrance/exit swap - I think this would indeed be better handled with invisible and fake objects. I plan to add proper invisible objects (but probably not terrain, both for reasons of difficulty of implementation and that that is blatantly unfair to the player given the more pixel-perfect nature of terrain compared to objects) to the next update, just like SuperLemmini has. And of course, you can simply use specific music selection if you want to play the gimmick music (set it to 254 for Frenzy, 255 for Gimmick).
3. Radiation Stoner - This one would be better handled by an object, I think.
4. Harmful Bombers/Stoners - I would think it'd be logical to only apply this to bombers, or perhaps as two seperate gimmicks; but I've actually considered this one myself. Added to the list. (This could be quite interesting when combined with Nuclear Bombers, too.) What I'd wonder for this one is, what's the best thing to happen to them - should they burn (like hitting a fire object), or perhaps start a chain reaction (ie: any lemming caught in the blast also instantly bombs (without an OhNo))?
5. Upside-down lemmings - I've already explained (I think) why I wasn't going to do invertible gravity (like Cheapo has); the same thing applies here. It's FAR too much work. One possible workaround would be to simply draw the gameplay area upside down, though then you'd have to create the level upside down too; and this may still take more effort than it's worth.

Lemming types:
In general, these would be quite simple to implement functionally, but could be problematic graphically. They would have to be done either by including an entire second set (per type) of lemming graphics in MAIN.DAT, or palette-swapping on the default graphics (which could then be problematic for customized graphics, and maybe even when simply using the xmas palette).
I do like the gold lemmings idea, not so much the evil lemmings one. Perhaps I can look at these at some point.

Extra:
1, 2. I don't see much point in doing this; for one it would majorly increase the filesize of an already-large player. The only music-related change I'd like to make is, if there's a MOD/IT file (or MIDI; I can convert that easily enough) for the Sunsoft Special level, then I'd like to use that for that level.
3. If the level files (or information on how to extract levels from the Genesis version) show up, I'd be more than happy to adjust and include them.



I'm currently overhauling how the skill counts are handled, which will have a number of benefits:
- Easily fix the interactions between various factors that affect counts, such as Challenge Mode, the Reverse and Overflow gimmicks, pickup skills, etc
- Avoid (not that there are any that I know of) skill count-related glitches that only apply to a specific skill
- Remove the 100-of-each-skill limitation in Challenge Mode

[namida]

Known bug that will be fixed in the next update:
When using Challenge Mode, the text replay always contains info on quantities used of the 8 traditional skills, instead of basing it off the level's actual skillset.

Also, as mentioned above, pickup skills, the Overflow gimmick and the Reverse Count gimmick now all get along just fine, instead of having weird results when combined. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

One more thing I'll be doing for the update (unless it turns out to be too much work, which it shouldn't) is adding one-way-down arrows to the official and LPII styles. Also, the Fire style needs some improvement to the trigger areas of the existing arrows, so I'll do that too. The improved trigger areas for the one-ways will apply to all affected players, while the addition of the one-way downs will, as usual, only be put into Cust and Flexi (and of course the editor).

EDIT: On closer examination of the fire set's one-way arrows, it looks like the way they're set up is actually logical. If anything, it's just the frame size that's a bit confusing.


EDIT: I've added the one-way downs to the dirt style, it's very simple and doesn't seem to cause any problems. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

I might look into adding some other new objects to certain styles, too. I didn't want to do this before because it would be a complicated task, but with V8 of LemSet having a decompile option, it's much simpler to do now (apart from having to make graphics, of course). If you have any suggestions of what should go in what style, let me know.


Also, please note: From now on, the non-remastered versions of the LPII styles are no longer given any official support. They'll remain available for use, but please note that they won't be updated with new objects in this round of updates (which will probably be the last one for existing styles).

[namida]

Just for reference, the remaining object slots in each style, if anyone wants to make suggestions (especially relevant for objects that go in pairs, such as teleporters or locked exits, which will thus need two slots). All of these are taking into account the addition of one-way-downs (unless they won't be added to the style in question; I don't plan to add them to styles like Xmas and Sega that don't have one-way arrows at all):

Dirt: 1 remaining slot
Fire: 1 remaining slot
Marble: 2 remaining slots
Pillar: 1 remaining slot
Crystal: 1 remaining slot
Brick: 2 remaining slots
Rock: 0 remaining slots
Snow: 2 remaining slots
Bubble: 1 remaining slot
Xmas: 3 remaining slots
Tree: 5 remaining slots
Purple: 5 remaining slots
Psychedelic: 4 remaining slots
Metal: 3 remaining slots
Desert: 3 remaining slots
Sega: 8 remaining slots <-- I might add all three types of one-way arrows to this one, that'd still leave 5

If you've got graphics for an object type that you think should be added, even better - though keep in mind, you need to stick to the available palette! (You can easily get this by decompiling the graphic set with LemSet.)

EDIT: Actually, for the locked exits, they don't nessecerially *need* two free slots - as the existing exit can be adapted into a locked exit. This would though mean that in styles where this is done, a single level can't contain both locked and unlocked exits. (But, a locked exit and a normal exit function exactly the same if there are no buttons in the level.)



A behind-the-scenes change; I've changed the code for removing a lemming so that it can be specified whether it's been saved, killed, or neutral (eg: fallen out of the level). This means that rather than having to duplicate the code for registering the lemming as saved/killed (the latter for Karoshi purposes) on each case that can remove the lemming, it simply specifies which to treat it as. This should have no actual effect on gameplay, it's just a behind-the-scenes change, but it does make it easier to add future cases of lemmings being either saved or killed.

[namida]

Well, run into a minor snag with three styles (specifically - Fire, Crystal and Brick), in that adding the one-way-down arrows pushes the VGAGR object sections to over 64KB. Working on updates to all three programs (LemSet, NeoLemmix and NeoLemmix Editor) to get around these limitations now - of course the editor and player already support sections over 64KB in and of themself, there's just no support for graphic sets pointing to anywhere beyond the 64KB mark (as previously it was only used for full-color VGASPECs); whereas LemSet didn't support these at all previously.

[Wafflem]

Great job that you're doing this!

Here are my suggestions for some of the styles:

Fire: 1 remaining slot - radiation
Marble: 2 remaining slots - locked exit and button
Crystal: 1 remaining slot - updraft
Brick: 2 remaining slots - locked exit and button
Snow: 2 remaining slots - updraft
Bubble: 1 remaining slot - shame this only has one slot, one-way fields, teleporters and locked exits would have worked here. The radiation object will do, since it goes along with the theme of the style.
Xmas: 3 remaining slots - updraft, ice blower, water (the Xmas style needs some objects from the Snow style; it really looks bare without them)
Tree: 5 remaining slots - a bird trap (birds eating lemmings; you can place that on the nest terrain piece), updraft, one-way fields
Purple: 5 remaining slots - teleporters, locked exit and button
Psychedelic: 4 remaining slots - teleporters, locked exit and button, radiation
Metal: 3 remaining slots - radiation, locked exit and buttons
Desert: 3 remaining slots - updraft, radiation
Sega: 8 remaining slots - locked exit/buttons, teleporters, one-way fields

Also, are you able to add steel to the Bubble set?

Gimmick ideas:
1. Turn around skill - I could possibly do this one, although aside from graphical features, it wouldn't be much different from Backwards Walkers. I'll add it to the list to consider.

Another thing that makes this different from backwards lemmings. For example, after a lemming finishes building, and you assign them a builder again, they will turn around and build in the opposite direction; if you keep doing this, you can make a zigzag staircase without blockers; these will especially be useful as splatforms.

[namida]

Tree: 5 remaining slots - a bird trap (birds eating lemmings; you can place that on the nest terrain piece), updraft, one-way fields

I'm only going to add *new* object types, except maybe with the Xmas and Sega styles. Tree style already has a triggered trap anyway (the falling clump of leaves).

Also, are you able to add steel to the Bubble set?

Not at this point in time, as it already has 64 terrain pieces, which is the maximum. I'd have to overhaul the format much more significantly in order to add extra terrain. It's something I might consider eventually, but definitely won't be doing in the next update at least.

You could of course create a customized version of the style that either replaces some of the existing pieces, or alternatively, use the spare object slot (make an object that looks like a steel block, and use the Only On Terrain property - if you want different sizes, you could even designate the object as a pickup skill, with a trigger area in a location that can't actually be reached if the area its on is set as steel; alternatively the Steel object type will be working properly again in the next update so that'd avoid the need to manually set steel areas when using the workaround, though I haven't yet tested how this interacts with negative steel).

Another thing that makes this different from backwards lemmings. For example, after a lemming finishes building, and you assign them a builder again, they will turn around and build in the opposite direction; if you keep doing this, you can make a zigzag staircase without blockers; these will especially be useful as splatforms.

That's actually a really good point. Okay, I'll do this gimmick at some point. It probably won't be the next update though; I need to implement the new extensions to the graphic set formats, then also do an editor update to get it in line with new version features (as well as implement support for new SuperLemmini features), so apart from that and fixing any bugs I might come across, I think I've implemented everything that I'm going to for the next update. (Also keep in mind - you probably saw this coming; since the only function of the new graphic set extensions is to allow more/larger graphics, I'll be updating CustLemmix to support it too.)

At this point, I've finished updating LemSet to support the graphic set extensions, and I've done all the graphic sets except Fire and Crystal (these two, along with Brick, ran into problems before; but since Brick has the simplest arrows, I used it while testing the fixes); I still need to update the player and the editor.

EDIT: Player is now updated to support it. So the player can pretty much be released once I (re-)do the Fire and Crystal sets. An updated editor may have to wait until tomorrow as there's a fair bit to do on it. With that being said, the extended graphic sets don't crash the existing editor, they just look weird, so you can already make the levels using it if you can tolerate slight graphical issues in the editor.

For those who know the technical details of the formats, the new extensions allow the object section to be up to 4GB (which realistically will probably never happen - the brick style, which is the largest so far (though Fire or Crystal might end up exceeding it, we'll see), is only about 65KB - barely over the limit of the old format). The terrain section's limitation isn't so straightforward - the section itself can be up to 4GB theoretically too, but the furthest into it any terrain piece can start is at the 8MB mark exactly; since the maximum size of an individual piece is 248x255, this puts the practical maximum at about 8.05MB. Still far higher than any graphic set is realistically likely to ever use, especially since the current format only allows for 64 terrain pieces (and if I were to make a new format that allows for more, I could then also allow it to make use of the full 4GB maximum section size - the 8MB-ish limit is due to the limitation of bytes to store the piece graphic addresses).

(And for those of you who don't quite understand the above - this is not the same as the size of the actual source BMP files. The size of the 'sections' in the output graphic set are only about 20% of that of the source files.)


Other new objects (apart from the one-way downs) will come in a later release, since they're a lot more work - I have to actually make new graphics (unless anyone else wants to contribute?) for the most part, rather than just rotate and maybe slightly modify existing ones; although I could possibly recolor some of the graphics used in LPIII to add them to the old styles.


EDIT: On second thought, I will release a V1.20n-A of the editor which supports the new extensions to the graphic sets (but is otherwise identical to V1.18n-D). Then later this week I'll do a V1.20n-B update which adds the support for the new features in NeoLemmix V1.20n and SuperLemmini V0.93a.

[Wafflem]

Another suggestion for the Fire style: notice how the right-facing one-way arrows are actually moving towards the left? This should also be fixed.

For the turn-around skill, another thing I can suggest is that when a lemming is currently in the middle of a permanent-skill activity, and you assign them a skill, they will turn around while doing the activity. For example, when a lemming glides and you assign them a mechanic, the lemming will immediately turn around. In the case of assigning a skill to a climber, they will turn around immediately after climbing up a ledge.

If you combine this gimmick with the Surviving Bombers, they will turn around after exploding.

[namida]

I'm fairly sure that's intentional? At any rate, I've kept consistent with the one-way-downs - they also move to the left, not downwards. It's kind of hard to say whether this is an intentional thing or a mistake - I guess the questions to ask are; is this the same in all versions? And, if so, do any official levels actually *use* the one-way-rights in that style, because if not, it's more possible that it was overlooked. (I can't think of any off-hand that do, there might be something in Genesis maybe?)

At any rate, I'll leave it as-is for now, and I can always fix it later, since it'd be a purely graphical change.

Just got to do (and test) the Crystal style, then compile everything, and it'll be ready for release. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

A couple of other changes that are coming with this update, one of which I was a bit unsure about adding but decided to just put it in, and the other I think most of us will agree is long overdue (as pretty much all other modern engines have it) - invisible objects and infinite time limits.

[namida]

Alright, here we go! I already uploaded the https://www.dropbox.com/s/rsf1upzxsvtzmes/LemSet_V9.zip" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">LemSet Update V9 earlier (it also fixes a bug with decompiling non-official 16-color styles, as well as adding the support for the new extensions), but here's the new NeoLemmix and editor updates. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

NeoLemmix V1.20n
----------------------------
*  Objects can now be invisible.
*  Objects with the effect of anti-blocker field or steel area now work properly.
*  One-Way Arrows automatically apply the Only On Terrain flag, as this is more
   consistent with how they actually behave.
*  Overflow and Reverse Skill Count gimmicks now interact with each other properly.
*  Pickup skills now interact properly with the Overflow and/or Reverse Skill Count
   gimmicks.
*  Any skill count that isn't in the range of 0 to 99 is now considered to be
   infinite. (Previously, only exactly 200 was considered infinite.)
*  A time limit exceeding 99:59 is now considered infinite. (Previously, there
   was no option for infinite time.)
*  When using traditional LVL format, if the time limit seconds exceeds 59, it
   overflows into the minutes instead of giving glitchy results. (For example, if
   the limit is 1min 62secs, the actual time limit will be 2:02)
*  When Reverse Count is in effect, skills are unusable at 99 instead of at 100.
*  The text file saved with a replay when Challenge Mode is enabled now uses the
   level's skillset to save used skils info, rather than only showing the traditional
   eight skills.
*  One-Way Down arrows have been added to all traditional and LPII styles (except Xmas).
*  Graphic sets with more than 64KB of object and/or terrain data are now supported.
*  When using Test Mode in NeoCustLemmix, the forced settings are no longer saved
   to the INI file.
*  The positioning of the one-way arrows on Danger 26 of LPDOS has been improved.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pf3qz9s1jvxaxzh/AADJQnEVIMYKNKpyk4anjzQja" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pf3qz9s1jvxaxzh/AADJQnEVIMYKNKpyk4anjzQja


NeoLemmix Editor V1.20n-A
-------------------------------------
> Supports graphic sets with more than 64KB of image data in either section.
> Has the updated traditional/LPII graphic sets that include one-way-down arrows.
Note that it does NOT yet support other V1.20n features, such as infinite time limits; nor does it yet have support for new features in the latest version of SuperLemmini. Both of these engines will be given better support in the V1.20n-B update. The features have been documented in the NeoLemmix and SuperLemmini level format documentations respectively, so if you need them urgently for any reason, you can manually implement them with a hex / text editor in the meantime.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8mvqsauypeex3j7/NeoLemmixEditor_V1.20n-A.zip" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://www.dropbox.com/s/8mvqsauypeex3j7/NeoLemmixEditor_V1.20n-A.zip



The https://www.dropbox.com/s/e4aekv1exsodx2t/NeoLemmix Styles.zip" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">ZIP of the NeoLemmix Styles has also been updated with the new versions. If for any reason you're wanting to use these with older versions of the engine, most of them will work fine, but NeoLemmix V1.20n (or higher, once available) is required for the new versions of the Fire, Crystal, Brick and Snow styles. There are no changes at all to the LPIII or Sega styles.

CustLemmix has also been updated to support the new extensions to the graphic set format. Obviously there's no intention to add anything to the CustLemmix versions; it's more so people won't run into the limit if/when they create custom graphic sets.

[namida]

So, working on the editor. Not ready for the release yet - it can't do anything it couldn't do before yet - but I have, as mentioned, split the Properties and Skillset into two seperate windows. Further improvements to the skillset window will be on their way later (tidier layout, checkbox for infinite skills setting, etc). http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

I'm wondering if I should also split the gimmick selection into yet another seperate window?

[Wafflem]

Yes, you should split the gimmick selection in a new window. It will also make things easier.

[namida]

Alright, I'll split that into another seperate window too.

EDIT: Okay, so far I've done:
- Splitting Gimmicks into yet another seperate window
- Autosteel in SuperLemmini style
- Negative steel in SuperLemmini style
- Invisible objects in NeoLemmix style

I must leave for a few hours now, so I'll do more later. All that's left to do is tidy up the skills window, add proper support (and SuperLemmini support) for infinite skills, and add support for infinite time limits in both NeoLemmix and SuperLemmini. ...and I still need to add support for SuperLemmini "vgaspec"s, as well as improve the general handling of those, but that'll probably be for V1.20n-C.

In the meantime, here's another shot showing the 3 seperate windows, and Autosteel being used in a SuperLemmini level.

[Wafflem]

Another glitch with the disobedience gimmick:

Another way to free a blocker with this gimmick in play is to use any skill on the blocker, so it will shrug and become a walker again. However, when lemmings walk into the area where the blocker used to be, they treat this area as though the blocker is still there, and turn around.

[namida]

Being able to free the blocker that way is intentional, but the blocker field remaining behind is not. Fixed that in the source, so it'll be fixed in the next update.

Also worth noting - you can only make it shrug by assigning a skill that you could usually assign to a blocker (so Bomber, Stoner or a permanent skill). This is intentional too. Once it's shrugging, you can assign any skill to it.


Support for infinite time limits (in both NeoLemmix and SuperLemmini) has now been added to the editor.

By the way, in case anyone's wondering: Invisible objects require the extended format, while infinite time does not.


EDIT: Done the infinite skills now. Before I release it, there's one more thing I want to do - an attempt at a workaround for the playtest issue with SuperLemmini.