Author Topic: Are any levels NOT possible on Lemmini?  (Read 4355 times)

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Offline Minim

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Are any levels NOT possible on Lemmini?
« on: January 07, 2014, 06:58:17 pm »
The mechanics in Lemmini are obviously different in comparison to Lemmix/DOS. I'm just wondering out of all levels concerned, if the difference of mechanics actually make any of the 220 levels impossible to solve. There's one level (Havoc 8) where the intended method was to use only one builder to build over the gap at the top, but on Lemmini you're forced to use two builders because of the alteration in mechanics.

I was thinking of a potential challenge which involves the fall height mechanic, but the only program I could change to make this idea work was the Lemmini one, which made me want to ask this question.
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Are any levels NOT possible on Lemmini?
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2014, 07:43:33 pm »
Which gap in Havoc 8 needs 2 builders?  Is it the big(-ish) one above the entrance?  Does that mean builder bridges in Lemmini can't span as long a gap as Lemmix/DOS? :o

I don't have any experiences with Lemmini, but based on past experiences with levels from other platforms (eg. Genesis, Mac), I'd say that while occasionally there's the rare one or two level that plays out differently, so far none I knew of has actually crossed the line into outright impossibility.  Typically the availability of extra skills and/or margins in save percentage keeps things possible.  It also helps that most of the time the standard level solutions only make use of the most "basic" aspects of the skills' behaviors.

I'm also pretty sure that during development, the author did what is necessary to at least keep all 120 levels in original Lemmings to remain solvable in Lemmini.  Less sure whether any attention was paid to ONML levels at the time though.

And while you are looking at this, you might want to include the Xmas levels as well?

Offline namida

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Re: Are any levels NOT possible on Lemmini?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2014, 10:22:59 pm »
It would take me all of 5 seconds to compile a modified version of Lemmix with a different fall height, if you want.
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Offline mobius

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Re: Are any levels NOT possible on Lemmini?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2014, 10:26:33 pm »
Which gap in Havoc 8 needs 2 builders?  Is it the big(-ish) one above the entrance?  Does that mean builder bridges in Lemmini can't span as long a gap as Lemmix/DOS? :o

I'm also pretty sure that during development, the author did what is necessary to at least keep all 120 levels in original Lemmings to remain solvable in Lemmini.  Less sure whether any attention was paid to ONML levels at the time though.

In Lemmini, builders place their bricks closer to their body making their bridge not extend as far as in DOS  (I mentioned it more recently in the Lemmini glitch thread. I used to think the bricks were simply shorter but I don't think this is the case)

I believe all levels of the original and ONML are perfectly solvable in Lemmini (though some alternate solutions are certainly not)
Lacktardo made a whole video series on it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsG3PBZ9muY&list=PLFFAC896E0C736F12
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Offline Proxima

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Re: Are any levels NOT possible on Lemmini?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2014, 10:36:44 pm »
So, does that mean the Genesis level "Jump down!" would be impossible in Lemmini? It's impossible in Lix for a similar reason.

Offline Minim

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Re: Are any levels NOT possible on Lemmini?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2014, 10:40:35 pm »
So, does that mean the Genesis level "Jump down!" would be impossible in Lemmini? It's impossible in Lix for a similar reason.

Probably so. As mobius said, the Lemmini lemmings build closer to themselves than in the Lemmix version. I tested the Lemmini builder on Havoc 8 just now, and I came three pixels short of the platform. Similar tests may need to be made to Blizzard 13 to see if all the gaps can be crossed. I might also want to test Hail 6 to see if the nuke solution works.
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Offline Gronkling

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Re: Are any levels NOT possible on Lemmini?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2014, 11:05:57 pm »
Those "Everyone Turn Left" Genesis levels definately don't work as hitting arrows doesn't turn you around and your not allowed to mine on them anyway.

I've completed both the original games in lemmini a while a go now though.

Offline Crane

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Re: Are any levels NOT possible on Lemmini?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2014, 02:17:15 am »
This is not quite the same, but you can't complete Taxing 4: "Lend a helping hand" conventionally because the trigger zones on the spike traps are far more unforgiving.  You have to be cheesy and go through the left wall instead.