Lemmings Plus II

[namida]

Finally did a couple more levels towards the bonus pack - one frenzy and one Karoshi level. Also, I ported back to it one feature from the improved Lemmix - specifically, the left-facing entrances. This made one level simpler to fix (a near-symmetrical level where the intended solution didn't work with lemmings starting right, but does if they start left* - flipping the entrance is simpler than reversing the level, even though it's metal style so it wouldn't be impossible to accurately reverse) and another level much tidier-looking.

* This is not due to mechanics pecularities, but due to the fact that the level isn't *perfectly* symmetric.

Apart from that, I also added one new gimmick - although it's simply a combination of four existing ones. I'll leave it as a surprise exactly what it is, though one of them is the Frenzy gimmick. (It's not actually used for an overly-complicated level - it's more that the original idea was to combine the Frenzy with one of the others, then I saw that adding two other gimmicks to the level actually made it work a lot better.)

[namida]

While work on the bonus pack is slow, it *is* progressing. I attached a map of a no-gravity level I made today. =D

At this point the bonus pack is 80% complete, so there'll definitely be a release. If I really feel like I can't come up with more levels, I can just make it a smaller pack. =P

[namida]

Rush is now complete. Reverse is also only one level away from completion. Still need to do three for flight, as well as one more secret level - I haven't decided exactly which rank. However, there'll be one secret level in either Trial or Challenge, and one secret level in either Reverse, Flight or Rush. The three leftover ranks won't have secret levels.

As for the secret levels themself, one will be a gimmick level (using either the Cheeky 8 or Genius 16 gimmick), and the other, I'm tossing up whether to use the other of those gimmicks, a combination of multiple gimmicks (someone suggested that combining no-gravity with Genius 16 might be interesting; I myself really like the concept but I haven't yet thought of any good ideas for a level), or a new non-gimmick level.


EDIT: Forgot to mention it at the time, but Reverse is now complete. The last level to be made actually ended up being Reverse 1. (You know that level I posted a while back as a sample, filenamed "Reverse1.png"? It actually ended up becoming Reverse 6 - it's by FAR the hardest of the Reverse levels.)

[Wafflem]

This has been one of the best packs I have ever played. You demonstrate a lot of variety in the levels (as well as LPDOS). The difficulty curve is just at the right pace too.

Some general comments:

• Instant bombers – I agree very much that bomber timing is pointlessly annoying. Why can't all Lemmings games be like that? (although, admittedly, the 5-second bombers were fun in Mild 22 and Medi 5 of LPDOS).
• My favorite styles are Tree and Purple. I chose Tree because it may seem similar to the Dirt and Rock style at first, but is more lush and much closer to the style of "A Beast of a Level." Purple is one of the most original ideas for a custom Lemmings style. I love the tentacle traps and jelly structures. The others are just as great!
• I like how you implement the element of 250 lemmings in the levels in very clever ways. One thing that bothers me is the inaccuracy of percentage of lemmings that get saved. For example, when one lemming enter it says 0%, and when I hit Esc it still says "You couldn't even save one lemming" when I did save at least one. It's more of a technical thing, though.
• Thank you very much for including the current level's password when you fail/quit the level, it makes things very convenient for those who forget to write the password down. Thank you also for having the ability to select skills with the mouse when pausing instead of using the function keys!
• Some things that you could add to the trivia:
  
  • Nice 21 also has 240 skills total.
  • The ninth level of every difficulty has exactly one of each style, and also has at least one of both the gimmick level and the Floater Frenzy level.

Some LPII level comments:
Note: The bolded ones means they're my favorite.

Nice:
Nice 6 – Capsule Run – I felt that a better way to showcase the one-way fields would be to put a piece of terrain on the bottom-right of the one-way field of the right side. This is so that the lemming will be able to walk back and hit the one way field. Then you can add a digger or miner. (Though you did showcase them more in Nice 11.)
Nice 9 – Something's Not Right Here... – uses the infamous Karoshi gimmick. This is an excellent way to showcase the uniqueness of the whole pack. The level is so much fun too, finding multiple ways to massacre lemmings   http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> even though the level is easy, which is why I agree that there is a lot of potential in creating levels with the Karoshi Gimmick.
Nice 12 – Cactus Island – an excellent way to make things slightly more challenging, especially if there are newcomers.
Nice 13 – Watch Your Lemmings... – good that you provided a hint in the title, the level's sole trap is very evil (and creative, too).

I'm very curious as to how the repeat will be like in your bonus pack (as well as Nice 11).

Nice 16 – These Lasers Aren't So Fun... – I knew there was a reason the level was overly complex! (view spoilers to see why) The level is tricky and intimidating enough when I first previewed it, and the fact that you have no diggers, miners and bashers and only bombers makes this level indeed not so fun, in addition to the lasers. I didn't even know you could save the level with 100%, and I still haven't figured it out yet. I thought you'd use this level as a Trial level...

It's an excellent choice for hiding the secret level!

Nice 17 – Lemmings Gettin' Down – by making this level more difficult than before, you actually also make it very hard to save 100%. Well done! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />
Nice 18 – MEGALEMMINGS! – you actually were able to accurately imitate the lemmings! This level effectively showcases another unique aspect of the Psychedelic level. I felt that this level would have also worked as a Trial level, though.

• A small and random challenge to this level would be to get three of the lemmings to copy the poses of the MEGALEMMINGS at the same time. It's trickier than you think!

Nice 20 – Dungeon of Despair – a very great way to wrap up the Nice difficulty with tricky navigation.

Cheeky:
Cheeky 4 – Island Hopping – this one's interesting. I can see why you said this was your very last level made for this pack – it's merely building across the islands. Still, I like the twist you add to the level that you have to save 100%.
Cheeky 5 – A Violation of Lemming Rights – a very well-designed and original level structure that serves as an excellent step-up in challenge from the previous levels (though I'm not sure what the one-way wall on the right is for aside from turning lemmings around).
Cheeky 6 – Raindrop Lemming – a 250-lemming level that's quite fun and a little evil (in the sense that the release rate is very high). If this were a no-pause level, oh boy...   http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" />
Cheeky 8 – The Haunted House – one of the oddest gimmicks ever used. It threw me off the first time I played this level. Solving it is particularly hard, especially for newcomers of Lemmings, as the level uses a not-so-well-known trick.
Cheeky 11 – One-Lem Wonder – a fun one-lemming level, though could have used a little more challenge.
Cheeky 13 – Above the Forests – this level is an excellent demonstration of the reason instant bombers are far better than timed bombers and allow for more puzzle potential.
Cheeky 15 – To the Treehouse! – a very good use of miner tricks here to climb up the tree. An overall excellent puzzle.
Cheeky 17 – Heads Up! – the solution to the level is simple and nothing new, but quite fun at the same time.
Cheeky 19 – The Long Road to Nowhere – this level (along with Cheeky 20) is an excellent way to show that the upcoming levels will become harder. Navigating around the one-way walls is very tricky, and the time limit really doesn't help much either. I thought you'd make this a Challenge level, though...
Cheeky 20 – Kickback Scheme – Yikes. The first time I played this level, it was quite difficult. It may be close to Oddstack-difficult, with a very tricky level structure, limited skills, and its position in the difficulty, though you get a larger time limit.

Sneaky
Sneaky 4 – Overflow Zone – even once I figure out the gimmick, it's still a very fun level because it has so many solutions. One of my solutions involves using builders only.
Sneaky 5 – Misfortune of the Masses – an excellent puzzle level with a lot of thinking and a lot of multitasking.
Sneaky 8 – Lemming Surge – another cool and well-designed 250-Lemming level.
Sneaky 13 – When Only a Lemming Will Do – by shortening this level to one minute and removing backroutes, you have given this level a real challenge that I really enjoyed.
Sneaky 16 – Dive From the Dunes – a really fun and adventurous level that is indeed reminiscent of Tricky 25 (Cascade).
Sneaky 20 – The Impossible Level – impossible indeed. I like that it involves using a not-so-well-known trick to solve this level, and even if you know it, it can still be very difficult.
Sneaky 21 – Camp of Curses – it's good that you switched this with "O RLY?" because I found this level to be easy.

Cunning (I haven't solved them all yet, so not all my favorites are here yet.)
Cunning 3 – Just Some Leftovers – I had a lot of fun solving this level. It's one of those levels where you have to do things in a particular order.
Cunning 4 – Droppin' Bombs – well, even with instant bombers, the level can still be very annoying had there not also been the feature of lemmings moving one step when clicking during pause mode as well as save states.
Cunning 8 – 404: Exit Not Found – the title of the level makes me laugh! I also like how harder it is than Tricky 28 in that you only get 5 of each skill and that you have to save 100%.
Cunning 19 – Who Turned the Gravity Off? – this level is another very good reason for me that adding a gimmick to a level adds a whole new level of strategy. Getting the lemmings down can be quite annoying.
Cunning 21 – Floater Frenzy – it was a good idea to make this Floater Frenzy the secret level. It is the hardest Floater Frenzy in my opinion, and I haven't even beaten it yet. There's got to be some sort of strategy involved here. EDIT: Beaten.
Levels I haven't solved yet: 5, 6, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16, 17, 18

Genius (haven't solved them all either)
Genius 1 – Emergency Rescue Procedure – a truly challenging level that is a very great way to begin the Genius rating.
Genius 4 – Diet Control – backrouted, based on other replays. See attached.
Genius 5 – Illusionary World – in my opinion, this level is harder than Panic Attack. Maybe because of how big the level is and the sequence in which you have to do it, as well as the one-way fields. I haven't really solved it either, only saw the replay.
Genius 8 – Panic Attack – definitely one of the best levels, and it really does give you a Panic Attack!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" /> It's weird how I was able to solve a very hard level like this, but not most of the Cunning levels and Genius 5 and 6.
Genius 9 – Floater Frenzy – Gosh...this one was indeed evil. It's an excellent way to relieve that thinking tension you had to go through in the past 88 levels (or 93 levels if you did the secret levels before this). When I first played the level and the gimmick kicked in, I laughed. I thought the level was going to imitate Danger 27 of LPDOS.
Genius 11 – Dungeon of Death – heh, this one's really odd (in a good way). Even with just a very tiny percentage, you also have to use a couple of not-so-well-known tricks to make it through the dungeon. A very tough challenge indeed.
Genius 13 – Only a Lemming Away – now this level is really in line with challenging my thinking skills! I had a lot of fun with this level, timing the placement of skills of lemmings.
Genius 14 – Minimalistic Approach – the level has a unique solution, but I felt that it would have worked as a late Cunning level.
Genius 16 – Not Your Garden-Variety Lemming – a very cool use of the endless builder and basher gimmicks, although the level could have been better structured. I think there is a lot of potential in creating good levels with this gimmick.
Genius 21 – O RLY? – I'd say that I enjoyed this secret level the most. It has a nice challenge and a not-so-obvious route. My solution stayed the same no matter how many times you updated the level, though...
I'm not sure with you, but it seems that a couple of the Genius levels are hard, but not as hard as most of the Cunning levels.
Levels I haven't solved yet: 5, 6, 19, 20

Overall, this has been a truly excellent and challenging pack. It's very innovative and really changes how we normally play lemmings. I am very much looking forward to your bonus pack! Well done!

[namida]

The thing with the message on the saved screen happens because the saved screen never gets passed a quantity of lemmings saved, only a percentage. It's the same reason why it will say you passed exactly even if you saved one or two extra lemmings, if it doesn't give an extra percentage point. Since there's only two levels with more than 100 lemmings (and none in the bonus pack, at least so far), I don't think it's a huge deal - not worth the effort it would take to fix (unless the fix was done by changing the message to not make reference to saving no lemmings).

As far as your individual level comments go (though I won't reply to all of them),
Nice 6 "Capsule Run" - I wanted to keep it absolutely minimal for the first appearance of them. I'm sure enough people would get the idea of how they work when they try to just go back the way they came. =P And if not, as you mentioned, Nice 11 displays some more-complex use of them.
Nice 16 "These Lasers Aren't So Fun..." - It's actually possible to beat this level with just one skill. =P That aside, there's also a more-obvious solution that's also quite simple that you seem to have missed. The biggest problem for putting this level into Trial is the one-skill solution, or variants of it, would probably appear as backroutes. It was considered, but I ultimately ended up using Nice 21 instead.
Nice 18 "MEGALEMMINGS!" - The Psychedelic set actually has terrain pieces that are just 8x8 squares of a solid color, in every color of the pallete. (There are also 16x16 versions). That's why the accurate depiction was easily possible. The only challenging solution I've found to this is trying to solve the level without bashers, but it requires perfect timing and glitch abuse, so I wasn't willing to use that for a Trial level.
Cheeky 5 "A Violation Of Lemming Rights" - The part on the right is pretty much just decorative. It's mostly coincidence this level turned out so good, it was really only made as a generic filler level.
Cheeky 15 "To The Treehouse!" - There's actually another way to solve this level, too. (The miner solution was my original intended one, but Akseli found a different way, and since the difficulty was similar, I was happy to leave it unfixed.)
Cheeky 19 "The Road To Nowhere" - You got the name wrong on this one. =P Maybe you're confusing it with Medi 11 from LPDOS, "The Long Road To Lemming High". Anyway, this is another level that was considered for a repeat, but ultimately I couldn't find a harder solution that I liked.
Cheeky 20 "Kickback Scheme" - There is one particularly evil feature in this level, that I never noticed during testing or even until after the levels was finalised - the second miner, depending on his exact position, might end up falling into the water and drowning. >_> If you can avoid that, the level isn't too bad, but it does require some creative thinking.
Sneaky 13 "When Only A Lemming Will Do" - It's one of my favorites too, and I really like the solution, so I wasn't going to let a backroute destroy this one. Ignoring backroutes, the original two-minute version was just as hard as the new one. =P
Cunning 3 "Just Some Leftovers" - This is one of those levels where I honestly can't see why it's so popular. xD I pretty much rushedly put this one together to get a demo out.
Cunning 12 "Jailbreak" - This was on your list of ones you haven't beaten, but don't feel too bad about it. It may be a 20-of-everything-level, but in spite of this it's actually one of the hardest levels in Cunning. My solution actually uses all 20 of at least one skill.
Cunning 21 "Floater Frenzy" - Actually, originally Cunning was just going to not have a Floater Frenzy. Initially the plan was one gimmick level per rank (with Floater Frenzy being one such level, no exact position for it had been decided), and Cunning was not going to have a gimmick level (due to having the repeat-like Tuned Lemming levels instead). When I decided to have a Floater Frenzy *and* another gimmick level in each rank, I also decided to give Cunning a gimmick level but not a Floater Frenzy (Sega Master System version is my precedent for leaving out the repeated-in-every-rank level from one rank; on SMS, Taxing does not have a We All Fall Down). Finally, when secret levels were added, by this point I was somewhat starting to have a hard time coming up with level ideas, and I also wanted to make a Floater Frenzy in the desert style, so I thought "heck, I'll give Cunning a Floater Frenzy after all". There is some degree of strategy involved, it's hard to explain but the basic idea is get the first four lemmings as soon as they appear, then try to floater up several at a time from one trapdoor (or at least one side) before worrying about another one. Ultimately though, more than anything it really is just a matter of precision high-speed mouse control and accurate clicking. (Or if you don't mind playing unfair, you can abuse savestates and replays.)
Genius 1 - I agree about it being great for the position. Generally, I'm quite fussy about the final level of every rank as well as the first level of the last rank - your mileage may vary, but I also felt that in LPDOS that no level even came close to being as perfect for PSYCHO 1 as Variety Day. (I also seem to have a habit of the second level of the last rank being more a matter of execution than strategy - Stampede! isn't as bad as The Parking Lot, but it still has that trait.)
Genius 4 - Nice work, it's somewhat of a backroute but meh. Levels are finalised now. It's a shame you couldn't squeeze two more lemmings out of that though, otherwise you'd have a new record for most lemmings saved on that level. Also, you've listed this among the levels you haven't beaten... (Any solution can count as beating the level now, since I'm no longer updating them to fix backroutes.)
Genius 5 - It can take a bit of thinking, as firstly it requires multitasking, and secondly it requires cooperation between the sides; you can't just solve each side individually (at least, as far as I'm aware). However, it doesn't require obscure and/or well-placed interactions between skills in the way Panic Attack does.
Genius 9 - All I'll say is that you're not even nearly the first person to expect that. =P
Genius 14 - You might've gotten lucky (or found something that I didn't), but this level requires an extreme amount of precision. That's why it's in Genius.

I'd reccomend leaving Genius 19 until you've beaten the rest of the remaining ones (except maybe Genius 20, if you want to leave the final level for last). It's definitely the hardest level I've ever made; even Panic Attack is nothing by comparison to Wrong Way, Mister Lemming.

As for your comment about more levels with the infinite builders/bashers gimmick - I'm really strongly thinking about (accompanied with a suitable name change) making Flight into a rank with some of these levels as well as some no-gravity levels, partly due to really having trouble coming up with no-gravity ideas.

[Wafflem]

Cheeky 20 – Yep, that portion with the second miner timing frustrated me when I solved it. A very challenging level indeed.
Genius 4 – Beat the record! Though the miner placement had to do with trial and error.
Genius 14 – I think you're right, it has more to do with that I got lucky. Here's the replay.

Also, I listed Cunning 20 as an unsolved level. That was a mistake; I've already solved it. It's a very well-structured and fun level although it was easy.

[namida]

Nice work on Genius 4. I tried playing around with your Genius 14 replay - I did manage to improve it to 77%, but that's still a bit short of Akseli's 80%.

Currently working on another Flight level. This one is the kind that those who are familiar with my level designs should find easy, but will probably be quite a challenge to those who aren't.

EDIT: Alright, it's finished. Here's a screenshot. The solution might not be obvious until you actually play the level, but once you do, as I've said, those who are familiar with the kinds of tricks I use should have no problem with this one; those who don't know me so well might have trouble. The level name alludes to this as well as being a play on an official level name - "Easy When You Know Me". Requirement is 80% (of 5 lemmings).

[namida]

Flight is now complete. All that's left is to make another secret level. I'm tossing up between a non-gimmick level or a new gimmick (I do have an exact idea for one, though my idea will be quite hard to code).

[namida]

This final level has now been made, it's just going through testing and refining now. Expect a release very very soon.

[namida]

BONUS PACK IS RELEASED!

You can get it here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/2rlhe3d9oco099i/LemmingsPlusIIBonus.zip" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/download/2rlhe3d9oco099i/LemmingsPlusIIBonus.zip
Good luck everyone! Replays will be released at a later date, in the meantime, if you think you've found a backroute, PM me or post here. Keep in mind that this isn't a matter of each rank is meant to be harder than the previous one. The levels in Trial and Challenge are ordered by their order in the original LPII, while the other three; the levels within them are roughly ordered by difficulty. The order of the ranks themselves is purely arbitrary.

There are secret levels, but not one per rank like LPII - there are two of them in total. One of them is in one of the two repeats ranks, the other is in one of the three gimmick ranks. And I promise there's no third super-secret one, unlike how I didn't reveal the LPII secret levels' existance at first. (If you want to be technical, there *are* secret levels for the other three ranks in the code, but they're just filled with mostly-blank placeholder levels, and there is no way to access them. However, if you're making your own levels, you can use those slots with LookForLVLFiles.)

One secret level uses one of the gimmicks that doesn't have a dedicated rank, the other secret level is a new non-gimmick level, which I would rate as probably Cunning-level difficulty.

[namida]

Just to let you's know, backroutes have been found for Reverse 2, Reverse 4 and Reverse 5. The other levels haven't turned up any, at least not yet.

I'm only going to do one levels update for the bonus pack, so before fixing these, I'd like to see as many other solutions as possible. Just for the record though, *nothing* will be considered a backroute for Reverse 1 or Flight 1. Additionally, unless they can be fixed by adjusting the skillset/stats only, I'm probably not going to make any fixes to the Trial or Challenge levels, as I want these to remain identical to their LPII versions. (Apart from the addition of a secret level trigger in one of them, of course.)

And just to confirm: There are both left-side and right-side solutions to Trial 6. I myself had thought a left-side solution was impossible, but Akseli proved me wrong on that. In fact, left-side may actually be easier than right-side.


If there's enough interest, I'll do a voteoff for this at a later stage like I did for LPDOS and LPII, but I'd rather wait until the levels are finalized and have been for a while. Since I'm only going to do one level update, it shouldn't take too long.

[Wafflem]

Yep, this is a very challenging pack so far. The repeats are indeed difficult (such as Trial 1), and the gimmicks in the three ranks are used in very clever ways. Also, it's about time we got left-facing entrances in Lemmix!

Unbeaten levels:
Trial: 3
Challenge: 1, 5, 6
Reverse: 4 (backrouted), 5, 6
Flight: 3, 4, 6
Rush: 5

Here is what I have done so far in the replay zip file. I'll post full level comments some time after the final update.

[NieSch]

I'm only just discovering the fan created levels. It's great to be playing new levels again. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

[Nepster]

Thanks for creating some more levels! As DynaLem already said, the Trial and Challenge levels are really hard.

I attached most of my replays. There you will also find comments (containing several spoilers) on all the levels I tried so far.

Just one question: Is there any possibility to skip one level (i.e. Trial 3)?

[mobius]

Just one question: Is there any possibility to skip one level (i.e. Trial 3)?

in the LemmingsPlusII folder/ "LemmingsPlusII.ini" file, see CheatCodes=0. change it to =1.  then you can instantly win a level by pressing 5.

sorry I don't have a lot of real useful comments on the game itself. I'm still playing though. I enjoyed Sneaky level 2 (the metal one if I have it correct). Sneaky 4 – Overflow Zone is super tough! I'm pretty stumped on this one.
Btw, I mentioned this somewhere else but the psychedelic terrain is growing on me, I actually like it pretty much now.