Lemmings Plus II Topic - <100% completed>

[namida]

Haven't checked with a new version yet but I'm pretty sure of what the bug is: It appears that jLevelBuilder sets a minimum Y coordinate that's closer to zero than what LemEdit/Lemmix can handle. Thus, if a terrain piece's Y coordinate is too low, jLevelBuilder moves it downwards. Compare this to the image posted a couple of posts back, specifically noting the bits sticking out below the steel and the poles near the entrance.

[LJLPM]

Ok. Thanks for the info and the screenshot. Is it possible to PM me a link to this level, please? It will be a great help for fixing this bug. Thanks!

[namida]

Since it uses a not-yet-released style, I figure that's not much help unless I send you the whole style... here's a level using a normal style that exhibits the same problem. The screenshots is a comparison of in LemEdit and in jLevelBuilder.

[namida]

Also, in other news, a minor cosmetic fix I made a few days back but don't think I posted. Like the original games, LPII now correctly says "1 Minute" where applicable (Lemmix will usually display "1 Minutes"). Even though 1-minute levels don't seem to be very common so far, certianly nothing compared to the wild proliferation of them in LPDOS (so far, LPII has only two levels with a one-minute time limit - the one shown below, and Cunning 20 - though two or three minute limits are fairly common).

[namida]

Just hit the 80 level mark! Here's the 80th level to be made:

Cunning 16 - "Look Closely!"

Yes, the level is somewhat inspired by Save Me - or rather, by how I approached Save Me the first time I encountered it. This level being in the purple style was also a very last minute thing - I had it all mapped out in my head in the metal style, but then I though "hey, I could easily make this as a purple level, and Cunning needs more purple levels".

[LJLPM]

here's a level using a normal style that exhibits the same problem. The screenshots is a comparison of in LemEdit and in jLevelBuilder.

Perfect! Exactly what I needed http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> It shouldn't be hard to fix.

EDIT: ok, I see what's going on, and your guess is right! Actually, the fix is obvious.
In jLevelBuilder, Terrains' Y coordinates are >= -38 as described in the doc ("[...]y pos : 9-bit value. min 0xEF0, max 0x518.  0xEF0 = -38, 0xEF8 = -37[...]"). On the LemEdit's screenshot, items' Y positions obviously don't care about this "y >= -38" limitation (the highest terrains start at -208!). So here's my question, does this level work well in Lemmings? If yes, what about the Y constraint? Do I have to remove it? Is this actually a bug in jLevelBuilder, or does LemEdit allow bad Y coordinates for Terrains (or maybe Lemmings1 just doesn't care about this constraint, too?)? I'm waiting for suggestions because I want jLevelBuilder to be Lemmings1-compliant. Thanks!

- removing the Y-coord limitation in jLevelBuilder
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/30/xw3u.png/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/548/xw3u.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

[namida]

I've never run into any problems with it in any Lemmings game. I know that if you set an *object* to a Y coordinate less than 0, it plays up, but terrain works just fine.


Anyway. I didn't make a post (just updated the progress tracker) at the time, but last night, I put together what may very well be the hardest level I have EVER made. Since this will more likely than not be the hardest level of LPII (assuming no serious backroutes, but from testing so far it seems to actually be quite backroute-resistant - the only one that's come up so far was in itself a pretty damn difficult solution, and was very easy to fix; apart from that, I also found that a digger I'd been using was not actually essential to the solution so as a precaution against backroutes I minused one digger (in terms of difficulty, the extra digger - if it was required - would've added a VERY slight twist at the end; it had no impact on the main body of the solution)), I'm not going to reveal a map or stats, but I will say that the level I'm referring to is currently placed at (and most likely will remain at) Genius 19 and, just in case it does get moved, the title is "Wrong Way, Mister Lemming". Two other things I will mention is that the level is actually quite small (it fits on one screen, though it does fill up that one screen completely), and that the time limit is not a major obstacle - it could get in your way if you're carelessly slow, but with the right solution, there won't be any need to fiddle with the release rate or anything to fit within the time limit (the only release rate change in my solution is putting it up to 99 once ready to do so, though it's quite possible you could an extra lemming or two by fiddling with it further; and my solution has the last lemming exit with about 25 seconds left on the clock).

[LJLPM]

I've never run into any problems with it in any Lemmings game. I know that if you set an *object* to a Y coordinate less than 0, it plays up, but terrain works just fine.

Ok. I've just uploaded beta 1.63 which allows lower values for Terrains' Y position.
Could you check if your desert level now works as expected, please? Thanks!

[namida]

Yep, works like a charm now. =)

[LJLPM]

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

[namida]

As with Genius 19, I'm not going to say much about it now, but we finally have a final level! =D

I'll give a few teaser points:

• It's a Desert-style level.
• There are two entrances and one exit.
• The skill you're given the most of is climbers, followed by builders.
• The skill you're given the least of is blockers and bombers equally.
• The level has at least one of every skill.
• The level has less than 50 lemmings but more than 10.
• The save requirement is below 85% but above 55%.
• The level contains exactly 8 steel blocks. (This is counting terrain pieces, not steel areas.)
• The level does not contain any traps or one-way walls*. It does contain water.

* Referring to the traditional (ie: can only bash/mine in one direction) type here, not the LPII objects that let lemmings pass but only in one direction (the desert style doesn't even *have* those, only the psychedelic and metal styles do).

Difficulty-wise, it's a clear cut Genius level (IMO anyway) but it's definitely not as hard as Genius 19. I'd say there's also a few other Genius levels that are a bit harder (Genius 8 comes to mind). It has a real final level feel to it though. =D

And as a little bit more of a teaser, here's the *minimap only*. I'll link this rather than post it as an inline image, so those who don't want to spoil themself at all on it can avoid doing so.
http://i.imgur.com/Jq5FbL0.png" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/Jq5FbL0.png

Feel free to share your speculation on it. =P I won't confirm or deny anything, but it'll be interesting - and it might help spark some ideas for other levels.


Also! With the creation of this level, all difficulty ranks are now at least 80% complete (two of them are 90% - Nice and Cunning). =D

[namida]

AND WE HAVE HIT 90%!!! Not long to go now!
Actually, since I'm going away for a few days on Tuesday, I'm aiming to get this finished before then. And that's going by *my* timezone, which is like 17 hours ahead of the forum's clock (GMT+13 here).

Anyway, we now have only 2 Nice levels, 3 Cheeky levels, 3 Sneaky levels, 2 Cunning levels and 3 Genius levels to go! =D

The level that brought us to the 90% mark is one that I'm quite happy to reveal details about.

Genius 13 - "Only A Lemming Away"
100 Lemmings, require 78%
RR 1, time limit 2 minutes
1 climber, 1 floater, 1 bomber, 0 blockers, 2 builders, 1 basher, 2 miners, 0 diggers


Also, the positions of some of the gimmick levels have been moved around (two of them have also had their difficulty adjusted to better suit the new position).

[namida]

WE HAVE OUR FIRST COMPLETED RANK!

And surprisingly, it's Genius! It's kinda funny considering at one point, all the other ranks were like 50%+ and Genius was lagging behind with only like 3 or 4 levels made.

Might take a bit to come up with some good levels for Cunning, but I can throw together pretty good levels for the lower ranks in a matter of minutes each. So we might even see a release today. =O (By my time zone, which gives about 8 hours until the day's over.) If not, it'll almost certianly be tomorrow.
(Don't hold me to that though, just in case.)

I had actually at one point been considering making it 18 levels per rank (for 90 levels total) instead of 20 each, but... bit late now, I'd have to drop levels... xD Anyway, only 8 levels to go now - 2 Nice, 3 Cheeky, 2 Sneaky and 1 Cunning. =D



EDIT: And thanks to an epic stroke of genius (or should I say stroke of cunning?  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> ) I just had, Cunning is now also complete! I also pumped out an extra Sneaky level in the meantime too. So only 2 Nice, 3 Cheeky and 2 Sneaky to go! 7 levels!!! Since these are the easier ones, it's very likely that we're only hours away from release. =P (I do plan to go through all the levels once they're finished and, apart from obviously checking I haven't left any half-finished (it's happened before) or modified them and rendered them impossible, also check if any levels need a bit of extra decorating. But that won't take too long - I've already saved replays for most levels as I've made them, I think I have like 5 levels that I don't have replays for, all of them in Nice/Cheeky/Sneaky.)

Taking a bit of a break for now (just for an hour or two), since I often find when I try to rapidly pump out lots of levels (as I tend to do when I get excited about a pack being near completion), I tend to make very sucky levels, so having a rest might help the last few levels be up to the same standard as the majority of the pack. (For an example of what happens when I'm trying to finish off a pack quickly, have a look at Danger 9 from LPDOS or Medi 8 from the *OLDER* versions of LPDOS (not the newer ones where that level's been replaced with a better one).)

I would say the levels in LPII are developed (overall, not each specific level) to an even higher standard than those in LPDOS, which is already pretty highly thought of from what I can gather. Plus, almost every level is unique - even by the absolute strictest of definitions, there's only 6 levels that could be considered "repeats", and none of those 6 are repeats to the same degree as LPDOS's or the original games' repeats; they could be considered more along the lines of the situation with Fun 16 and Taxing 6 in Lemmings 3D. Also, there's no outright remakes of older levels (unless you count Rolling Rampage, but that was never an official level in any pack, just a rejected (albeit accidentally rejected) LPDOS V7 level), though there are some cases of levels that are clearly inspired by older ones.


EDIT: Back to work again, and Sneaky is now complete! Two more levels each for Nice and Cheeky... this shouldn't take too long. Maybe an hour or so to make the levels, and another hour or two to go through and check everything's working as it should (and add a bit of decoration to a few levels)...



EDIT: And, Nice is now complete too! And only one level remains before Cheeky is complete - meaning WE ARE ONLY ONE LEVEL AWAY FROM LPII BEING FINISHED (apart from a few last-minute touchups, and fixing any backroutes that come up).

I plan to do a limited number of releases - basically, I'll update the player as many times as nessecary if bugs pop up, but for the level designs, counting from the full release (ie: excluding the demos), there will be no more than three backroute fix updates - any backroutes that still survive after this remain for good. In addition to this, each individual level will only be fixed up to twice. Also, I'll probably set some sort of timeframe within which these updates can occur, and any backroutes not found by the time it runs out also remain. It's just that, while I do want to cut down on them, I don't want to be forever updating the pack, eventually I want to say "okay, this is absolutely finalised and there will be no further modifications or updates", like with LPDOS at V7.

[namida]

All levels are now complete. Since I still need to go through and make one last check that everything works fine, I'm labelling it 99.9% complete rather than 100%.

However, expect a release within the next few hours.

[namida]

Lemmings Plus II has now been released! See this topic for downloads:
http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=879.0