[Lemmini/Lemmix] Revenge of the Lemmings!

[Akseli]

IchoTolot finished his entire playlist for Revenge of the Lemmings a moment ago in YouTube, so there's now solutions for all the 210 levels! https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKR1N9oJTTlJc4yCh5nRL0pxylTVeAUBm" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Another reminder of the link to his playlist. Level authors may now watch how their levels were solved and find out if there was anything interesting! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> Super awesome work, IchoTolot! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

Excellent work Pieuw, too! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=869.msg21723#msg21723" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">His spreadsheet covers all the main ratings currently, authors may read now what he thought of all those levels, as Crane just mentioned.

[Nepster]

Here is a replay of Vegetation Reign (Armageddon 1), that is most likely not quite intended.

[Akseli]

Nice, seems very careful skill placement there, might be harder than the intended solution. I managed to save an extra lemming too, but in the intended way. However, your solution is mostly correct.

[IchoTolot]

IchoTolot finished his entire playlist for Revenge of the Lemmings a moment ago in YouTube, so there's now solutions for all the 210 levels! https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKR1N9oJTTlJc4yCh5nRL0pxylTVeAUBm" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Another reminder of the link to his playlist. Level authors may now watch how their levels were solved and find out if there was anything interesting! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> Super awesome work, IchoTolot! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

Thanks for the compliment! I hope this really helps to fix more of those nasty backroutes.
 I've got currently about 30 levels ready for my own pack (will be 5 main ratings a 30lvl) 11 of those for the 4th and 5th rating and I wanna say thank you to all the level creators and the people who have written the guides for "how to get Lemmix working"  for showing me that level making isn't magic and I can do it myself, too! I will also using some tilesets: For example Pieuw's Castle tileset aswell as PacGuy's Shadow and Egyptian tileset as a regular one.
As for my channel I will start uploading my MobiLems (V6 I think) solutions as well as some sneak peaks into the upcomming pack in the near future.

[Proxima]

Congratulations, IchoTolot!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />

Exactly the intended solutions for "Behind Bars" and "Changing of the Guards".

That is a backroute in "Rhapsody in Blue" but I'll let it go. The Lix version is different anyway, as it doesn't have that steel on the far left so you have to use a builder there. I guess this could be simulated in the RotL version by removing one builder, but then you wouldn't have the 2-of-everything.

"Vignette" should have an RR of 90; I think mobius just made a typo there  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

[mobius]

Congratulations, IchoTolot!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />

Exactly the intended solutions for "Behind Bars" and "Changing of the Guards".

That is a backroute in "Rhapsody in Blue" but I'll let it go. The Lix version is different anyway, as it doesn't have that steel on the far left so you have to use a builder there. I guess this could be simulated in the RotL version by removing one builder, but then you wouldn't have the 2-of-everything.

"Vignette" should have an RR of 90; I think mobius just made a typo there  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

Since we'll be using SuperLemmini for this next version it will be able to be more like the original. Sometime by PM remind me of what the original solution was, even thought I knew it.
Also changing of the guards: I'll be adding steel to the bubble set to take care of that "hidden" steel

[mobius]

Current list of changes:

Levels altered (or to be altered): [because of backroutes unless stated otherwise]
Serendipity,
Wish you had them? -
Lemming Recycling Plant,
Think Again,
Vignette,
Rhapsody in Blue
The Final Countdown
Build it up with iron and steel
Crystal Caves - lemming count increased to 100
Faithful Friends
Nemesis
Death or Glory! [name fixed]
Oil Refinery
Oh No, Not Again, slight change to make beginning part easier, decoration added
Stuff in the way, decoration added



I think I'll change my mind about From the Brink and go with the original version, it is very hard but it's not as ridiculous as I said earlier and feel kind of bad about putting it down. Besides, I don't think this easy version will work. I'd also like to duplicate this one for a blocker tutorial.


New Levels:
Minimal Trouble - Ellischant
Primal Technology - Ellischant
Use Your Brain Skillfully - MCMarshy
Dangerzone - t3tesla
Suicidal Tendencies - t3tesla
There's Madness in the Method - t3tesla
Split Complimentaries - Insane Steve
The Silent Circus - BulletRide
one way block - Minim, also may duplicate this one for an easy level
You have been fooled! - Minim
Lemming in a Cone - Martin Zurlinden
Someone must help us! - Matthias Witt
Now Use Miner's and Buidlers - Gronkling
Four Lemmings And a Funeral, Martin Zurlinden
The Wind Which Blows, Dodochacalo (needs testing)

others under consideration; (for inclusion or Removal)
Dr. Lemmingood - t3tesla; if Nepster's second solution is enforced this would make a good tutorial style level for those two tricks
Lemmings in a Situation - t3tesla; not sure if I should enforce one particular solution over another.
Ice Ice Lemming - t3tesla; same comment as above.
Mental Process - Insane Steve, ISteve remade for this one for Lix
six ways to success, Martin Zurlinden
Clay Man (part 1) - BulletRide
Lemming Dilemma and others by Proxima

Dilemma - Fernito; got some comments saying this level is a little too easy?
Gotta Keep Em Seperated; some backroutes
Pyramid Puzzle - BulletRide;
Blast Furnace - I'd like to go with the harder version instead (since we now have plenty of easy levels)

--EDIT---
any ideas for a title of the new rating? Also since a few people disliked the title "Hootenanny" you can offer more than 1 idea for that an other ratings

[Crane]

Don't forget that Lemming Cathodes has had the requirement increased back to 100%, so its Mayhem-like difficulty has returned!

For difficulty name suggestions:

- Breeze (as one level higher than Picnic)
- Devious (new difficulty before Frenzy)

Personally I like Hootenanny - it's unique.

[t3tesla]

others under consideration; (for inclusion or Removal)
Dr. Lemmingood - t3tesla; if Nepster's second solution is enforced this would make a good tutorial style level for those two tricks
Lemmings in a Situation - t3tesla; not sure if I should enforce one particular solution over another.
Ice Ice Lemming - t3tesla; same comment as above.

Thanks for considering these levels http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />
On "Community Request: Find Backroutes!" topic ( http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=1107.msg23969#msg23969" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=1107.msg23969#msg23969), I answer some of your questions.
Feel free to change the levels to remove backroute if you want add them into the pack.
You can also change the titles ;-)

[Crane]

This is not really a report or anything but just something I want to show off!  Find attached a replay of Duality (Armageddon 29) where only one lemming dies.  Note that this is played under SuperLemmini 0.98 and won't work on Lemmini due to miners not turning around if they hit steel in the latter (although the solution is still valid, only the first miner dies).  As a result it should work under Lemmix and DOS Lemmings too etc., at least in principle.

[Crane]

Got another 1-loss solution, this one using more 'tradtional' tricks' (e.g. mining into one-way arrows).  It took me a while to get this one to work because the final basher and builder are unforgivingly precise.

Note that I don't consider these backroutes (although techically they are) because they are very difficult to pull off and, if anything, are a nice challenge to save as many lemmings as possible.  I don't think there's a 100% solution.

[mobius]

on Duality;
I love that this level has so many solutions!
I'm going to have a look at your solutions later. I am  thinking about limiting them somewhat, though I have no idea how to do that

geoo found a pretty ingenious solution which involves using a climb bomber on the pillars to the left of the bottom entrance to trap the lemmings in. In fact, I think this is my favorite solution, the only really trick part is timing. Where-as bashing out the blocker on steps can be difficult. Actually, until I try it on SuperLemmini, I should say it's not really that difficult, but just seems a tad messy to me.

The Intended solution has two tricks; [geoo sent me a replay Yawg made years ago] using a basher inside the miner's tunnel at the beginning to free 3 bashers for the end. Then you block on the one-way block near the exit and free this blocker with a digger, this I'm sure works in SuperLemmini but can be difficult.

Maybe if anything I might try to eliminate the solution where you block on the steps. Since that's tricky to free him without making a hole in the step.

In other newsl; I just found a pretty awesome solution for Patience Young Grasshopper imo that looses only two lemmings and relies on some tricky timing. The tricky part will be getting it to work, but I'm going to try and enforce that solution.

[Crane]

My two solutions above can be prevented, I believe, by increasing the spacing between the four one-way walls at the end by about 16 (small) pixels.

My very first solution to this level, and by far the cleanest (doesn't use any precise trickery) involves building over the water and sacrificing that lemming, and turning the second lemming into a blocker on the steel, far enough away that he doesn't damage the bridge upon exploding later.  At the top, you bash, mine, then bash through the large wall towards the exit, and you mine through the bricks in the top left to stop lemmings from walking to their deaths, although you have to turn this lemming into a digger at the last second so he doesn't breach the chasm, which will happen even if he strikes the steel floor.

This part I think is standard to all solutions.  Before you break through towards the exit, have a left-facing lemming mine towards the other trapdoor, complete the bridge across the water and then build back up to the miner's tunnel.  Bomb the blocker and let the trapped lemmings rendezvous with the rest.

Finally, you send two climbers over the wall and have them dig down the final stack to remove it.  Make sure the left digger goes first by a safe margin so he can build once low enough so he can hit the remainder of the stack and turn around.  Use your remaining miner and digger to clear the next stack by digging about 2/3 of the way down and mining the rest of the way (don't hit the steel floor) and then using the final two bashers to clear the last two stacks.  If this climber ends up climbing back into the tunnel, he will walk down towards the lower trapdoor, climb the column and turn around safely.  There should be more than enough time for this to happen.

Tools left over: -- 02 01 01 -- -- -- --

A minor variation of this involves sending only one climber and having him build from the far right stack to hit the ceiling over the exit, and use the two diggers to clear that stack by himself.  It takes slightly longer but saves a climber.

Nevertheless, I'd personally leave the level as is because the 1-loss solutions are, in my opinion, a nice custom challenge and none of the solutions detract from the fact that I think Duality is an absolutely beautiful level and by far my favourite in the entirety of Revenge of the Lemmings.


EDIT: I've tried the ingenious solution you mentioned geoo found, or something resembling it.  Would it be anything like this?

I've also attached the original way I solved it.

[Crane]

I've just discovered that Frenzy 6: "Life in the THIRD DIMENSION!" is unsolvable in SuperLemmini - the lemmings walk straight past the exit without interacting with it.

Also, just a minor request... can the Release Rate on Oil Refinery be increased from 40 to 50? It was originally designed with having to exploit a "walk-through blocker" under the trapdoor.  Because that doesn't work with Lemmini, the Release Rate was reduced slightly to compensate, but seeing as it works in SuperLemmini, it can be put back up to 50 now.

[mobius]

I've just discovered that Frenzy 6: "Life in the THIRD DIMENSION!" is unsolvable in SuperLemmini - the lemmings walk straight past the exit without interacting with it.

Also, just a minor request... can the Release Rate on Oil Refinery be increased from 40 to 50? It was originally designed with having to exploit a "walk-through blocker" under the trapdoor.  Because that doesn't work with Lemmini, the Release Rate was reduced slightly to compensate, but seeing as it works in SuperLemmini, it can be put back up to 50 now.

Are you playing all of the levels? You don't have to do this, but if you are, you could take note of which levels don't work. I was expecting this and will do it (if you or anybody else doesn't) myself. A lot of levels will require fixes.

Also I'll note down Oil Refinery

I just didn't get a chance to answer your other questions yet, sorry. IF you haven't you should upgrade to the latest version of SuperLemmini, old replays won't work in the new. [wait, maybe you should keep the old one as well...]
To answer your question from the other thread; I was interested in Mastermind but maybe I should decline it because the level list is now almost full. There will be at least 2-4 new levels from Cheapo [by Ben Bryant] which I've remade.