[Lemmini/Lemmix] Revenge of the Lemmings!

[Crane]

I think "Sharing a Climber?" was actually the first level I ever built in LemEdit.  Lemming Cathodes was also a very early level of mine - I never realised how endearing they are!

I definitely adore "A break in the pillar" just because it's the perfect tease!  Just one builder, please!

Another level I've come to really love in this pack is "Duality" (Armageddon 29) by Yawg, which has an absolutely beautiful sacrifice very cleverly disguised by the target percentage and the tools given.  Note I haven't actually reached this far legitimately (I'm still stuck on "A sea of purest green"), and this is the only Armageddon level I've completed so far.

[Proxima]

I'm nowhere near that far yet -- there are non-functioning exits on Hootenanny 4 and Frenzy 5 and 6, and I can't progress beyond Hootenanny 4 because the set title is too long for CHEATCODES to work. However, I've played up to Frenzy 15 so far and looked through some of the other sets. Yes, still enjoying them -- there are several that I've seen before, but also some lovely levels that are new to me -- so far my favourite is Frenzy 10, "Harder, Faster, Miner, Stronger".

On Frenzy 4 "Crossing the Chasm" I find it a slight demerit that the second builder only needs to place one brick -- would have preferred to shorten the gap and only give one builder. Though that would make the solution easier to see because there would be fewer options.

I feel this may be a backroute on Frenzy 11 -- it's way too easy for the level's position, and saves 100%.

The knife trap on Frenzy 14 doesn't work, allowing an obvious backroute.

Frenzy 13: "Drop the Dead Lemming" by Proxima (I guess I backrouted this one, saved builder and some other skills if I recall correctly)

How did you manage that?

Carnage 19: "Changing of the Guards" by Proxima (Well done möbius for placing this in the Carnage rating, it was surprisingly hard to realize what's going on here, but a big minus for steelifying normal terrain http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" /> (yes I know that Bubble lacks steel... could that be designed in an other way? This is still a really good level imo!))

Unfortunately, it's necessary to put steel or liquid there to prevent the "Lemmingentry Watson" solution. Glad you like the level!

I notice that in "Vignette", the device to make the lemmings start off going left doesn't work, but if I remember rightly, in Lemmix the level could be un-flipped and should work as originally intended?

[Proxima]

I remembered that after entering CHEATCODES, you can press 5 to bypass any level, so I've now played the first half of Hootenanny. There are non-functioning exits on Levels 4, 16 and 17, and oddly enough, these are exactly the levels where I think I've found backroutes.

I'm reserving judgement on Hootenanny 4 until I learn the intended solution, but right now I'm pretty annoyed with it. As well as the backroute, I found a very elegant solution that uses all the skills and all parts of the level, so I was sure it was the intended route -- and then I found that hidden traps have been put there specifically to prevent it. On an early level of the second set. Yeah, I'm beginning to share geoo's animosity towards hidden traps after incidents like this.

Martin Z is very likely right -- steel is misplaced to the right on all levels. For example, on "More Wee Creatures" I couldn't bomb the bridge, even though my lemming was well outside the steel area shown on Clam's picture. Unfortunately, this interferes rather badly with (what I think are) the intended solutions to Hootenanny 8 and 10.

On the plus side, I'm discovering some great levels  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />  My favourites of the ones I played today are "Crystal Caves" (fun "adventure" level), "Two-Minute Warning" (elegant solution) and "Kung-Fu Bashing" (visually stunning).

[Crane]

Yeah, I hate hidden traps too.  Besides being highly annoying and unfair, it screams shoddy design to me in that it's very obviously a patch-job, besides being a little 'unrealistic' when you uncover a buried and active bear trap or shredder.

[jammer64]

How to compile one's own Lemmix executable? Any C/C++/etc sources involved?

[ccexplore]

How to compile one's own Lemmix executable? Any C/C++/etc sources involved?

Nope.  Eric chose Delphi to write Lemmix so that's what you'll need along with source code that he shared out some time ago.  namida is probably the one who has done the most recent work on building custom Lemmix executables, and therefore in best position to help you with that sort of thing.

[Akseli]

My solutions for some of Proxima's levels recorded in Lemmix player attached.
Also attached the Read me file in case some people don't have it, möbius forgot to add it to the Lemmix download.

Quote from: Proxima on 2013-12-06 14:42:39

I remembered that after entering CHEATCODES, you can press 5 to bypass any level,

Hahaha I had forgot that also, a good point.

Quote

I'm reserving judgement on Hootenanny 4 until I learn the intended solution, but right now I'm pretty annoyed with it. As well as the backroute, I found a very elegant solution that uses all the skills and all parts of the level, so I was sure it was the intended route -- and then I found that hidden traps have been put there specifically to prevent it. On an early level of the second set. Yeah, I'm beginning to share geoo's animosity towards hidden traps after incidents like this.

This level is made originally for Lemmini, lemmings should fall facing to the left from the right enrance. Also, that trap shouldn't crush the climber lemming during his climb at the wall at the left (at the right a lemming climbs normally passing the trap).

A tip in cases of these suspicious levels: If you look at the levels/authors list at the end of the read me file, you can probably figure that if a level is made by an author who makes levels mainly for Lemmini, that level is highly probably having something unintended going on there, the levels aren't modified to work in Lemmix even though they would work there. Hopefully no author gets misunderstood or questioned now about their level designing skills because of these compatibility issues.

Now that there's so much interest in the Lemmix version and namida created an awesome Lemmix player for it, I might try to fix all the Lemmini levels so that they will work in the Lemmix version, but that's not going to happen quickly. :I


Proxima's solutions:

Frenzy 11: I solved this level similarly, nothing bizarre going here. Yeah I agree that this is an easy level for its place in the game. minimac as the author knows the intended solution.

Hootenanny 4: Explained above.

Hootenanny 16: The steel are doesn't work, you aren't supposed to be able to bomb that second layer through in the original level. (Yeah, these steelified terrain issues again, now the original level has this issue.)

Hootenanny 17: Wooow this is nice! Gronkling take a look at this solution, it works in the original level, I tested it! Never thought that this level would have more than one way to do it. I'd guess Gronkling will consider this as a backroute?


Mod Edit: Restored attachments.

[Gronkling]

I'm reserving judgement on Hootenanny 4 until I learn the intended solution, but right now I'm pretty annoyed with it. As well as the backroute, I found a very elegant solution that uses all the skills and all parts of the level, so I was sure it was the intended route -- and then I found that hidden traps have been put there specifically to prevent it. On an early level of the second set. Yeah, I'm beginning to share geoo's animosity towards hidden traps after incidents like this.

This level is made originally for Lemmini, lemmings should fall facing to the left from the right enrance. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Also, that trap shouldn't crush the climber lemming during his climb at the wall at the left (at the right a lemming climbs normally passing the trap).

Yes that level has completely broke '~' It should be fixable though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA6Gv77eWMc" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">[Here's the real solution] It still has hidden traps but they are to fix a different set of backroutes that I can't remember anymore.
Virtually all of my levels were made specifically for lemmini and often focus around mechanics only available there so I have a feeling most of my levels will be broken, escpecially in the bonus section.

Hootenanny 17: Wooow this is nice! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> Gronkling take a look at this solution, it works in the original level, I tested it! Never thought that this level would have more than one way to do it. I'd guess Gronkling will consider this as a backroute?

That level was designed to be easy, and that solution is just as good as the real one, so I don't mind it. 'u'

[mobius]

the issue with the steel being out of place must be something with converting the levels from ini to lvl. I'll let namida know; this is only in the Lemmix version. I just checked a bunch of levels in Lemmini the steel looks good.

[ccexplore]

the issue with the steel being out of place must be something with converting the levels from ini to lvl. I'll let namida know; this is only in the Lemmix version. I just checked a bunch of levels in Lemmini the steel looks good.

I'm not familiar with how Lemmini stores levels, but this sounds like it may be a side effect of how the LVL file format restricts steel areas' positions and sizes to multiples of 4 (plus a few other restrictions I can think of)?  If that's the case I'd actually say all Lemmini levels with steel will have some risk of something getting slightly out of place.  Sizes and positioning of object trigger areas may also end up slightly different between the original Lemmini level and the conversion to LVL.

Bottom line:  may be good to compile the list of levels that originated on Lemmini, and encourage people to focus on playing them with Lemmix to help test which ones are working and which aren't.

[Akseli]

Bottom line:  may be good to compile the list of levels that originated on Lemmini, and encourage people to focus on playing them with Lemmix to help test which ones are working and which aren't.

Well that's an easy task to put here on display also.

Every level of all the following authors originate on Lemmini: Dodochacalo, Gronkling, Lacktardo, LoftyD, Mikau Schekzen, Pieuw
Every level of all the other authors originate on/are remade for Lemmix.
Find out from the read me file the levels and their authors! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

Hootenanny 17: Wooow this is nice! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> Gronkling take a look at this solution, it works in the original level, I tested it! Never thought that this level would have more than one way to do it. I'd guess Gronkling will consider this as a backroute?

That level was designed to be easy, and that solution is just as good as the real one, so I don't mind it. 'u'

Yeah, I liked that solution too, it's not considerably easier than the actual solution, it just has more backroute-feeling in it. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> A clever lemming turnaround method there! Also, I probably got overexcited a bit because I always saw only the intended solution when I played this level, and I thought that I had looked for alternative solutions to some extent without finding any, and now I realise how yet somehow obvious that Proxima's solution is. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

[namida]

Left-facing entrances should be a simple enough modification. I'll look into it when I get back home.

[Proxima]

Got through the rest of Hootenanny. I think I found the intended solution to 17 now.

A strange solution to 18 that does use all the skills; wonder whether this was intended. Possible backroutes on 19 and 30; I also saved 100% on 24. Because of the steel misplacement, my solution to 19 goes through the steel, but the same solution should work if the steel were fixed, you'd just have to position the digger differently. I also think I may have backrouted 30, since I saved one builder.

I didn't pass 21 (Build it up with iron and steel). I can only see one possible route, but it narrowly runs out of time, even when sped up by avoiding climbing the far left pillar.

20 and 29 have non-functioning exits, the traps on 27 don't work, and 26 has a fake steel piece (not the usual steel misplacement -- you can dig right through the fourth steel piece in a line of five right next to each other).

Great levels!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

[Crane]

That'll be one of my levels!  This level was originally made in LemEdit and designed for CustLemm, so it should be doable in Lemmix.

You have to get two lemmings to build towards each other across the expanse in such a way that the lemming coming from the right turns around (by hitting the other builder's bridge) and heads straight for the exit.  You are also correct that you have to stop the climber from climbing the left pillar.

[Proxima]

Oh, I was thinking of something slightly different:

Build from both sides starting at almost exactly the same time, and both builders will step onto each other's bridges. To finish in time, I tried building against the far left pillar, which, as I said, narrowly fails. But I think, if the steel were fixed, it should be possible to build two steps on the steel, then mine to turn round, and that should have a chance of making it. It's impossible to test this due to the steel misplacement.