Fewest repeats of the same skill to beat levels.

[namida]

Okay well, here's an (I think) new idea for a challenge. The idea is - it doesn't matter how many different skills, or total skills you use - the aim is to have the lowest uses of any single skill. For example, solving a level with 2 builders and 2 miners is better than solving it with 3 bashers, because you've only used any one skill a maximum of twice. Or as Simon explained it: "For each level, find the smallest N such that a solution exists with the original skillset, with no skill used more than N times."

I already did up to Fun 20 - only Fun 14 and Fun 20 were really interesting so far.


Last updated 10 May 2020 at 12:05 PM forum time. Bolded levels are not yet solved.

Fun 1: 1
Fun 2: 1
Fun 3: 3
Fun 4: 10
Fun 5: 3
Fun 6: 1 (glitch)
Fun 7: 2
Fun 8: 1
Fun 9: 1
Fun 10: 1
Fun 11: 1
Fun 12: 1
Fun 13: 3
Fun 14: 2
Fun 15: 4 (glitch)
Fun 16: 5 (glitch)
Fun 17: 1
Fun 18: 5
Fun 19: 3
Fun 20: 2
Fun 21: 1
Fun 22: 2
Fun 23: 2
Fun 24: 1
Fun 25: 1
Fun 26: 2
Fun 27: 1
Fun 28: 5
Fun 29: 3
Fun 30: 1
Tricky 1: 1
Tricky 2: 5
Tricky 3: 2
Tricky 4: 5
Tricky 5: 3
Tricky 6: 2
Tricky 7: 7
Tricky 8: 8 (glitch)
Tricky 9: 3
Tricky 10: 4
Tricky 11: 2
Tricky 12: 2
Tricky 13: 3 (glitch)
Tricky 14: 6 (glitch)
Tricky 15: 3
Tricky 16: 4
Tricky 17: 2
Tricky 18: 1
Tricky 19: 1
Tricky 20: 1
Tricky 21: 3
Tricky 22: 1
Tricky 23: 1
Tricky 24: 2
Tricky 25: 7
Tricky 26: 1
Tricky 27: 2
Tricky 28: 1 (glitch)
Tricky 29: 2
Tricky 30: 3
Taxing 1: 6
Taxing 2: 2
Taxing 3: 6
<strong>Taxing 4: </strong>
Taxing 5: 5
Taxing 6: 1
Taxing 7: 5 (glitch)
Taxing 8: 5
Taxing 9: 1
Taxing 10: 4
Taxing 11: 7
Taxing 12: 6
Taxing 13: 2
Taxing 14: 17
Taxing 15: 3
Taxing 16: 7
Taxing 17: 2
Taxing 18: 1 (glitch)
Taxing 19: 5
Taxing 20: 2
Taxing 21: 2 (glitch)
Taxing 22: 1
Taxing 23: 12
Taxing 24: 5
Taxing 25: 3
Taxing 26: 6
Taxing 27: 6
Taxing 28: 3
Taxing 29: 2
Taxing 30: 7
Mayhem 1: 15 (glitch)
Mayhem 2: 6 (glitch)
Mayhem 3: 1
Mayhem 4: 2
Mayhem 5: 5
Mayhem 6: 6
Mayhem 7: 4
Mayhem 8: 3
Mayhem 9: 5
Mayhem 10: 5
Mayhem 11: 9
Mayhem 12: 3 (glitch)
Mayhem 13: 2
<strong>Mayhem 14: </strong>
Mayhem 15: 4
Mayhem 16: 1
Mayhem 17: 2 (glitch)
Mayhem 18: 6 (glitch)
Mayhem 19: 7
Mayhem 20: 2
Mayhem 21: 21
Mayhem 22: 6
Mayhem 23: 4 (glitch)
Mayhem 24: 3
Mayhem 25: 4 (glitch)
Mayhem 26: 6
Mayhem 27: 2
Mayhem 28: 5 (glitch)
Mayhem 29: 10 (glitch)
Mayhem 30: 9
 
Tame 1: 1
Tame 2: 1
Tame 3: 1
Tame 4: 1
Tame 5: 1
Tame 6: 1
Tame 7: 1
Tame 8: 1
Tame 9: 1
Tame 10: 1
Tame 11: 1
Tame 12: 1
Tame 13: 2 (glitch)
Tame 14: 1
Tame 15: 1
Tame 16: 1
Tame 17: 1
Tame 18: 1
Tame 19: 1
Tame 20: 1
Crazy 1: 1
Crazy 2: 3
Crazy 3: 2
Crazy 4: 4
Crazy 5: 7
Crazy 6: 5
Crazy 7: 3
Crazy 8: 3 (glitch)
Crazy 9: 2
Crazy 10: 7
Crazy 11: 1
Crazy 12: 2
Crazy 13: 2
Crazy 14: 4
Crazy 15: 2 (glitch)
Crazy 16: 2
Crazy 17: 3
Crazy 18: 2
Crazy 19: 1
Crazy 20: 6
Wild 1: 2
Wild 2: 5
Wild 3: 6
Wild 4: 7
Wild 5: 4
Wild 6: 2
Wild 7: 3
Wild 8: 10
Wild 9: 0 (glitch)
Wild 10: 3
Wild 11: 2 (glitch)
<strong>Wild 12:</strong>
Wild 13: 2
Wild 14: 2
Wild 15: 2
Wild 16: 4
Wild 17: 2
Wild 18: 4
Wild 19: 7 (glitch)
Wild 20: 2
Wicked 1: 1 (glitch)
Wicked 2: 5
Wicked 3: 3 (glitch)
Wicked 4: 4
Wicked 5: 1
Wicked 6: 2
Wicked 7: 4
Wicked 8: 4
Wicked 9: 9
Wicked 10: 7 (glitch)
Wicked 11: 3
Wicked 12: 6
Wicked 13: 7 (glitch)
Wicked 14: 1 (glitch)
Wicked 15: 6 (glitch)
Wicked 16: 1
Wicked 17: 4
Wicked 18: 3
Wicked 19: 5
Wicked 20: 1 (glitch)
Havoc 1: 5
Havoc 2: 9
Havoc 3: 2
Havoc 4: 1
Havoc 5: 2
Havoc 6: 2 (glitch)
Havoc 7: 6
Havoc 8: 4
Havoc 9: 13
Havoc 10: 1
Havoc 11: 8 (glitch)
Havoc 12: 9
Havoc 13: 2 (glitch)
Havoc 14: 4
Havoc 15: 5 (glitch)
Havoc 16: 3
Havoc 17: 2 (glitch)
Havoc 18: 8
Havoc 19: 3
Havoc 20: 7

[Minim]

So that means you still have to use the original skill set? OK then.

This challenge may be interesting at first glance, but unfortunately most of the results are probably going to be similar to that of the 'skills you can't live without thread'. I'd still give it a shot though as I have free time. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

[namida]

Yep. You're limited to the original skillset.

The big difference between this and the Can't Live Without is that in this, you're trying to minimize all skills at once. In the can't live without, you could play through once and use no climbers but 99 of everything else, then again using no floaters but 99 of everything else, and in the end come up with something like only one builder that was common to *all* the solutions.

This one, on the other hand, you're trying to come up with one solution that, as much as possible, avoids using the same skills repeatedly.

In that one, if the current record was 2 Climbers, 3 Builders, and you could solve the level with only 2 builders by using a 3rd climber, you'd have improved the result because you still used less builders. In this one, you'd still be using one skill three times (even if you're changing which skill it is), so a 3 climber 2 builder solution would be no better (but, of course, no worse) than a 2 climber 3 builder one.

If you look at the can't live without, for example, Fun 20 is listed as 1 builder. However, in this topic, the minimum is two - you may be able to beat it with only one (or even none) of any *specific* skill; but for an entire skillset for the level, there will have to be at least one skill that you have at least two of - in the case of Fun 20, I actually used two of *every* skill to acheive that result, except floaters.

Hopefully I'm making it clear what I mean? This is somewhat a hard concept for me to put into words...

[Simon]

This is somewhat a hard concept for me to put into words...

For each level, find the smallest N such that a solution exists with the original skillset, with no skill used more than N times.

Rotating hamsters have to be added to this post to make it seem non-wisecracky.
http://asdfasdf.ethz.ch/~simon/etc/hamster-3.gif" alt="" class="bbc_img" />http://asdfasdf.ethz.ch/~simon/etc/hamster-3.gif" alt="" class="bbc_img" />http://asdfasdf.ethz.ch/~simon/etc/hamster-3.gif" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

Also, results:
Tricky 1: 1
Tricky 2: 5 (from the min-total-skill topic)
Tricky 3: 2

-- Simon

[geoo]

That's a very nice idea, forcing to use the skills in a balanced way.

Some improvements:

Fun 16: 5 (glitch)
Fun 19: 3

And this is a really interesting one:
Tricky 6: 2

[mobius]

not a very interesting result for Tricky 7, but I want to make sure I have the idea correct.

7 builders appears at first glance to be the maximum here. and 2 of the other skills+ 1 bomber (unless one can glitch through the ceiling which I am about to test...) don't think so, takes 6 builders just to get to the right pillar

[namida]

Done Tricky up to 25. Levels of note were 11, 12 and 25.

11 and 12 were both very nice challenges. Give them a try - both of them can be done with no more than 2 of each skill.

25 the initial conclusion would be 10, but if you slightly modify the 100% solution, you can sacrifice a few lemmings and in turn save a couple of builders, and you already don't use most of your floaters on this path.

EDIT: Then I tried allowing even more sacrifice, and eventually came up with a solution using only 7 builders (previously I was using http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" /> - and despite being based off the 100% solution, guess how much it saves.... exactly the required 12%.

[ccexplore]

A bit busy nowadays, but will try to eke out some improvements every now and then...... http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />

For example, Fun 29 down to 3.  Not particularly challenge-worthy but is at least glitch-free. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" /> More interesting is whether 2 may be possible with sliding.

One more Fun level thus far has caught my attention but needs more time to work through, and (if my plan actually works out...) it would be a glitch solution.

[edit: Tricky 8 down to 8 (glitch) courtesy of http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=170.msg4886;topicseen#msg4886" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Clam's solution from the "skills you can't live without" challenge, which I've checked to use 6 blockers and 8 builders.  Though you made the same mistake as people did initially on that challenge too--the most straightforward solution, making use of blockers, would've yield 9 not 10.]

[Proxima]

Tricky 26: 1

[ccexplore]

One more Fun level thus far has caught my attention but needs more time to work through, and (if my plan actually works out...) it would be a glitch solution.

And confirmed!  Fun 6 solved using 1 bomber and 1 blocker, replay attached.  Obviously a glitch solution with the use of the blocker, but the actual key part of the solution making it possible to bunch up the required 10 lemmings is glitch-free.  To see that in action, I suggest fast-forward to around the time of explosion at timer 3:44 (the stuff before is just RR tweaking to bunch up and position the lemmings in a precise manner).

===========

Also Tricky 9 improved to 3 with a glitch-free solution (which barely works, with a barely survivable fall for the crowd and lucky alignment with the level terrain to still allow the crowd be turned by that blocker).  Replay also attached.  I don't think glitching through the steel would yield any further improvement on this level, but feel free to prove me wrong.

And Tricky 20 should of course be 1; I don't think a replay is needed for that.

[ccexplore]

I already did up to Fun 20 - only Fun 14 and Fun 20 were really interesting so far.

Hmm, you sure you don't mean Fun 15 when you said Fun 14?  With Fun 15 you reported 4, but it already takes 4 builders just to cross that big gap at the lower route.  Of the various previously posted challenge replays for that level, I've reviewed both a 4-builder solution that uses no builders once the big gap is crossed, and a 2-builder solution that gets to the ceiling from top of the tallest pillar.  Neither seem like they can be adapted to a max-4-of-same, at least not without a lot of rework (and a likely "glitch" designation for both).

[namida]

I don't remember even solving 15, that was an "I'm leaving this for a glitch expert"... xD I must've put something else's score there by mistake. But no,I did mean 14. It wasn't overly challenging, but it was at least more than just the normal solution with maybe a slight adaptation.

Fun 20 was probably the most fun (no pun intended) so far, though Tricky 11 and 12 were quite interesting too.

Now that being said... for Fun 15, it's possible to get into ceiling using only two builders, right? You'd then two (well, not entirely impossible with one, but I doubt you could pull it off with a 3-of-each-skill limit whereas 4 might be reasonable especially given the extra builder) to slide up the last pillar... obviously, prior to completing the path, you use climbers to get your lemmings up there instead of sliding. I'm NOT going to try and pull this off, but any obvious problems with the theory?

[LemSteven]

Moving on with a few more results:

Taxing 7: 5
Taxing 8: 5
Taxing 11: 7
Taxing 12: 6
Taxing 13: 2
Taxing 14: 17
Taxing 15: 3
Taxing 16: 7

[namida]

Updated, I also bolded the gaps to make them more noticable.

EDIT: I also tried Taxing 17. I came up with a solution with no more than 3 of each skill. It's quite a sneaky one, so try and work it out yourself first, but here's my replay.

[Proxima]

Taxing 17: 2 (sorry, namida!)
Taxing 18: 1 (glitch)
Taxing 20: 2
Taxing 22: 1. Another cool challenge, and glitch-free. Again, try and work it out for yourself if you haven't seen it before.