Really getting into the Mega Drive version of Lemmings!

[Prob Lem]

I briefly owned the Mega Drive version of Lemmings some years ago, and was so unimpressed by its presentation that it severely put me off of playing it; I thought that the Master System version did far better, audiovisually - there really was no excuse for the Mega Drive version to be lacking in-game speech clips, when the Master System version had them! I traded it in in fairly short order. Anyway, I recently saw a copy of the Mega Drive version being sold for peanuts, so, knowing now that it has a lot of levels not found in any other version of the game, and being older and wiser so as to not be bothered by the issues I see with the presentation, I picked it up.

I'm finding that, my expectations tempered (which they weren't when I was younger), I'm now enjoying this version of the game a great deal. The vast amount of unique stages it contains serve to make it quite a different experience to other versions. It still isn't displacing the Master System version as my favourite of the home-console ports, but it has gone up in my estimations a great deal. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

While I'm here and rambling, are there any other versions from the same era that have a substantial number of new stages added to them? They tend to be pretty good for emulating on portable devices (the first thing I did when I got the Mega Drive version of Lemmings was to dump it for exactly this purpose), by and large, and "new" official stages are always a welcome thing in this regard...

[Proxima]

I don't know of any. The Mac and SNES versions have unique levels replacing Tricky 21, but that's all.

[DragonsLover]

The Sega Megadrive (or Genesis) port of Lemmings has more interesting levels and in fact, ccexplore ripped them to be playable for the Dos version and on Lemmix: right there. You even have hidden levels in it.

[mobius]

I was looking over this wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Lemmings_ports" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Lemmings_ports

and now I'm confused about a number of things; (assuming everything in this article is correct)

according to this list the SNES was released before the Genesis/Megadrive. The SNES's level order is almost identical to the original except contains a few bonus levels at the end which also appear in the Genesis. I thought I remember hearing that the Genesis supposedly came first and the SNES simply borrowed a few of those new levels for that bonus rating.

somebody commented on a video of rtw's that the Genesis levels came before ONML which would mean those ONML remakes aren't actually remakes but visa versa? According to this article that is wrong but I'd still like some clarification. And also, does anybody know why they changed the names of those levels that were borrowed?

Lastly; [getting back to the question which ProbLem asked] there are a number of ports here on this list which apparently have more than 120 levels. the Play Station, Game boy color and particularly Nintendo DS (292)?
Also according to finlay's spreadsheet the PS3 has a version which is almost a new game. (I attached it)
Does anybody have any info on this? I don't know where to look.

also has anybody noticed that the box art of Oh no more Lemmings depicts the graphics from the first game instead of the new graphics of ONML?  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />

[Prob Lem]

somebody commented on a video of rtw's that the Genesis levels came before ONML which would mean those ONML remakes aren't actually remakes but visa versa? According to this article that is wrong but I'd still like some clarification. And also, does anybody know why they changed the names of those levels that were borrowed?

The claim that the Mega Drive version of Lemmings was released before Oh No! More Lemmings is incorrect - MD Lemmings was released in 1992 (I seem to recall this may have been mid-1992, but I don't have anything to back this up but memories of the time), whereas Oh No! More Lemmings was released towards the end of 1991.

I can't comment on the name-changes, but it is worth noting that some levels in both the Mega Drive and SNES versions, which were both handled by the once-famed Japanese developer Sunsoft, have altered names due to things getting lost in translation or due to catering to cultural differences, and perhaps some of the name-changes to the ONML levels could be due to these things (although I seem to recall that one of these was changed to refer to the initials of someone in the game's credits, also - I am A.T., I think that one was)...

For example, someone misunderstood the name of the level Luvly Jubly (it's pronounced as it's spelled - it's just slang which means that something is good, or is in good order, and is likely a reference to a television character of the era who commonly used the phrase), and changed it to "Lovely Jubilee" (which would imply a nice party, and which has nothing to do with the original reference).

There was also Smile if you Love Lemmings finding its name changed to "5 Miles if you Love Lemmings", which I don't even have an explanation for, because it just makes no sense.

To give one final example, How do I dig up the way?, which is a very dialect-specific sentence that doesn't tend to make too much sense to many people from outside of the UK, was changed to, if memory serves, "How do I dig up there?" or something in that vein, which has the same meaning, but also the benefit of being understandable on a bigger scale.

Lastly; [getting back to the question which ProbLem asked] there are a number of ports here on this list which apparently have more than 120 levels. the Play Station, Game boy color and particularly Nintendo DS (292)?

The PlayStation and Game Boy Colour releases include the levels from Oh No! More Lemmings, and Lemmings DS is a homebrew engine re-creation. The reason Lemmings DS' number of levels is so high is that it includes all of the original-engine levels (original, ONML, and all of the Christmas ones; I assume that it may have some of the promotional ones like the Covox level, but I don't know that for sure!), and can also accommodate user-made levels, which should explain that. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

Also according to finlay's spreadsheet the PS3 has a version which is almost a new game. (I attached it)
Does anybody have any info on this? I don't know where to look.

I second this. I've got no need for a PS3, but I'm curious to know more about the PS3 Lemmings title. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

also has anybody noticed that the box art of Oh no more Lemmings depicts the graphics from the first game instead of the new graphics of ONML?  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />

I don't have the box (EDIT: and I've never looked closely enough at scans of it!), so I didn't know that! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" />

[mobius]

yeah I agree on the Japanese mis-spellings. But I'm pretty sure they didn't just misspell the ONML remakes. Maybe they just wanted to come up with original titles. [some are better than the originals but some aren't... like "watch right or left"]

I didn't know that about 'dig up the way?' I understood it pretty well; I just thought it was a fun play on words.

5 miles... is really funny.
"Fall and no life"
"none title"

reminds me of a video I saw highlting an English sign in Japan reading: NO SMORKING IN BED

I think the most questionable thing about the wikipedia article is the SNES being released in 1991, supposedly before the Genesis/Megadrive

random fact:
I saw, in the Genesis version of "Jewels of the Oracle", a certain A.T. in the credits. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

[mobius]

I'm a doofus----- all this is pretty much explained in the spreadsheet.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/embarrassed.gif" alt=":-[" title="Embarrassed" class="smiley" />

[namida]

I have the PS3 version of Lemmings. It only features new levels (not the original/OhNo ones) and not many of them (45 levels IIRC - a training rank of 5 levels, plus four ranks of 10 levels, simply titled "Fun" "Tricky" "Taxing" "Mayhem"). It has some pretty decent challenges in there, and there are some new mechanics, though - for example, that version is where I got the idea of pickup skills from for NeoLemmix.

[Prob Lem]

I have the PS3 version of Lemmings. It only features new levels (not the original/OhNo ones) and not many of them (45 levels IIRC - a training rank of 5 levels, plus four ranks of 10 levels, simply titled "Fun" "Tricky" "Taxing" "Mayhem"). It has some pretty decent challenges in there, and there are some new mechanics, though - for example, that version is where I got the idea of pickup skills from for NeoLemmix.

Now that is interesting. Skills as pick-ups originated in The Lemmings Chronicles, and I had no idea that that concept had been brought back in another officially-released title. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" />

Are there any other mechanics in there that return from lesser-known titles, I wonder?

[Leo]

There was also Smile if you Love Lemmings finding its name changed to "5 Miles if you Love Lemmings", which I don't even have an explanation for, because it just makes no sense.

I think it's some mistake, because, letter 'S' is similar to number '5'. Someone was thought it's '5mile' without space and without 's' on the end of the word for the plural. So, he 'corrected' this level title to '5 miles...'
Very stupid, but it's only explanation.

To give one final example, How do I dig up the way?, which is a very dialect-specific sentence that doesn't tend to make too much sense to many people from outside of the UK, was changed to, if memory serves, "How do I dig up there?" or something in that vein, which has the same meaning, but also the benefit of being understandable on a bigger scale.

It's perfectly understandable to me. Why shouldn't be?

[Adrian060756]

Maybe I can shed some new light on this topic.

If you really love the Mega Drive version of Lemmings so much I have a rom that impoves a few things in the original game.

Okay I just released a (bug fix version) of Lemmings today on the Sega Mega Drive. I hacked into the rom using a hex editor and I corrected alot of the typos that the game has in it's level titles aswell as in the ending credits.

I'll go through them for you:

1. Level 4 of Tricky is no longer called ''The Ascending Pillar Scenario'' it is now called ''Been There, Seen It, Done It.''

2. Level 16 of Tricky the level title is no longer spelt ''Lovely Jubilee'' it is now spelt ''Luvly Jubly''

3. Level 17 of Tricky the level title had a typo in which it was called ''Diet Lemmingaid'' it is now spelt ''Diet Lemmingade''

4. Level 16 of Taxing is no longer called ''Umbrella Land'' it is now called ''Mary Poppin's Land''

5. Level 20 of Mayhem used incorrect American English for the title name in which it was called ''No Added Colors Or Lemmings'' it is now called ''No Added Colours Or Lemmings''. In PAL regions (especially Europe) they use the U in alot of words. Neighbour, Colour, Honour, etc.

6. I fixed the typo in the header in the credits to now say ''GRAPHICS DESIGNERS'' it used to be spelt ''GRAPICHS DESIGNERS''.

7. Lastly I put my name in the ending credits just before the SEGA logo washes up on screen.

Wanna play it?

ROM DOWNLOAD LINK: https://mega.nz/#F!K3pXVQpD!thTf5YaZvBfiuSFgXc1mSQ

NOTE: This rom will only work in 50Hz, booting it in 60Hz will result in flashes during the actual levels, that is not down to me, the original European rom featured this bug in it. You see the Lemmings (E) rom on the Mega Drive is fully optimised in both audio, visuals and gameplay for the 50Hz refresh rate, playing it on a NTSC system results in a flashing and glitchy screen when playing in a level.

This rom will play perfectly on a PAL SEGA Mega Drive model 1 console aswell as the Analogue Mega SG console. I have tested it on those consoles so I can confirm. I haven't tested on emulators but if it works on real hardware it's pretty much going to work on emulators.

As a bonus if you got an EverDrive or a Game Genie, put this code in the RAW section and you'll get a hidden sound test: 000698:1546 (PAL version only). Just go to Password to get to the sound test.

The only typo I left unchanged was level 10 of Fun: ''5 Miles If You Love Lemmings'' I truly believe that this is not a mistake and that it was intentionally spelt that way, if it was a mistake wouldn't it be spelt ''5 Mile If You Love Lemmings'' considering the 5 is very similar to an S.

Anyway i'm hoping my rom will one day open a gate into more experienced hackers and editors coming forward and learning the code so we can get new levels added into the already existing Mega Drive rom of Lemmings or maybe just to have some levels swapped out in exchange for a few new ones one day? Or maybe even music edits and different art and things like that. I know almost nothing about rom hacking 16-bit Mega Drive/Genesis games and I was able to make a few small changes so who knows? If an ordinary yahoo like me can do something with this game, anyone else can. What rom hackers do with the Sonic The Hedgehog series is what i'd love to see happen with Lemmings on the Mega Drive.

[ccexplore]

3. Level 17 of Tricky the level title had a typo in which it was called ''Diet Lemmingaid'' it is now spelt ''Diet Lemmingade''

It's worth pointing out that in the original versions (Amiga, PC, etc.) they also spelled it with -aid.  -ade obviously makes more sense for the pun, but is it really that likely for someone to accidentally misspelled lemonade that way?  I have to wonder if it's possibly intentional to "mis"spell it in the level title.

The only typo I left unchanged was level 10 of Fun: ''5 Miles If You Love Lemmings'' I truly believe that this is not a mistake and that it was intentionally spelt that way, if it was a mistake wouldn't it be spelt ''5 Mile If You Love Lemmings'' considering the 5 is very similar to an S.

The theory is that, like a game of telephone, it first got mis-transcribed to "5 mile", and then later someone else "correct" the grammar and add the s to pluralize.

Ultimately we'll never know.  I think many people find it too strange a change to be intentional, and furthermore you don't see any other examples of it in any other level titles.  But then again, "lemmingaid" (as opposed to ending in ade) also is kind of strange and has no similar examples in other level titles either.

Anyway i'm hoping my rom will one day open a gate into more experienced hackers and editors coming forward and learning the code so we can get new levels added into the already existing Mega Drive rom of Lemmings or maybe just to have some levels swapped out in exchange for a few new ones one day?

We worked out where and how the levels were stored in the ROM a long while ago, that's how we were able to extract the Genesis unique levels and convert to the DOS Lemmings level file format, and then later still to the NeoLemmix format.

Ultimately, I think most people prefer to play Lemmings-like games with a mouse, which isn't possible with Mega Drive.  So I see less interest going in the direction of modding the MegaDrive version, as simply taking the MegaDrive levels and graphics (etc.) and port them over to other existing game engines like NeoLemmix.  Though to be fair, people have done modding of other console versions in the past, like SMS.

[Adrian060756]

Okay well if that's the way the majority feel about the Lemmings series then that's okay. I remember GigaLem commented once that he wanted a hack of Lemmings on the Snes and Mega Drive and i'm with him, I prefer console gaming over PC gaming and i'm one who prefers playing Lemmings with a controller in hand and i've always dreamed of one day seeing the Mega Drive port get a big make over with increased rom size with lots of edits. I always wondered why it was never done before and why no one has ever attempted it, I guess you explained it for me.

By the way, for Tricky 17 I was referencing the Master System port with that edit where in that port it is spelt ''Diet Lemmingade'' so I copied that one, seeing how the 8-bit port is closer to the Amiga original with level names I naturally assumed it was ''Lemmingade'' in the Amiga original.