PimoLems - Big custom pack for Lemmini

[Proxima]

möbius has pointed out to me that these levels can be loaded into Lix, so I am able to have a look at them after all   http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

So far, I've breezed  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />  through the Calm levels, trying to find the maximum you can save on each one (I'll post my findings when I've got through the whole set). Of course, these won't always be the same as the maximum you can save in Lemmini; it would be interesting to compare notes at some point. Calm 4 is a little annoying, because with just a couple more builders it would be 100%able.

A couple of levels aren't solvable in Lix -- the Calm level with the fake steel, and some later on that use glitches. I looked at one in particular (the one that depends on a splatter exploding -- oddly this isn't mentioned in the list of glitch levels in the readme) to see whether the glitch could be avoided. My idea was to adjust the RR so he steps off the first step of the builder's bridge and explodes just to the right of the edge of the wall. Sadly, this doesn't work; for him to fully break through the pillar, the builder has to start one pixel back from the edge, but then he doesn't get across the gap.

Still, I'm looking forward to exploring the more difficult ratings  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

[Pieuw]

Awesome! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

It would sure be interesting to compare the results. I don't know if someone already tried to get the maximum amount of lemmings in Lemmini yet, though. I know I didn't, I'm not really a hardcore player, but it could be fun to try as it often makes the solution very different from the original, especially on easy levels.

Sometimes it's not easy to know what is a glitch and what isn't, I think that because it doesn't happen on Original Lemmings but happens on Lemmini doesn't necessarily means it's a glitch. I've never considered the splatting bomber as a glitch, as it doesn't offend reason or anything (after all, as long as there's something left of the lemming on screen, it's likely to blow up, right?). But for people that only play on original mechanics, I understand it can be confusing. I think the best would be to make a list of levels that use this kind of tricks, there are a few others I didn't put in the glitch list but that could fit in here.

I hope you'll have fun, and of course you can give any feedback - good or bad, it's always helpful! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

[Proxima]

Okay, I'm pretty sure I've got the maximum possible throughout the Calm rating now. Turns out Calm 4 is 100%able (only just!) but I just cannot find a way to 100% Calm 12. EDIT: Yeah, it's possible  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />

* * *

Halfway through Windy (I've solved ten levels, though not the first ten). Windy 4 is really nasty for time, though I managed it with six builders to spare; there was probably some way to use more skills but less time. There are some very fun levels in this category; I particularly liked "Take on the World!" and "Mizmaze".

[Clam]

I started these in Lix a little while ago but didn't expect there to be any interest because of the obvious gameplay differences. The above posts suggest otherwise http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

I solved Calm 12 with 100%. The trick I used doesn't work in Lemmini, so no 100% there I guess.

[Proxima]

Getting away from the computer clearly helped -- I "spotted" the trick required when I was out walking today  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

Okay, since I'm not the only one doing this, I'll post my stats so far and we can compare notes.

This is through to the end of Hurricane. All levels not listed are 100% saved. Bolded results are above the level's requirement.

Calm 3 "We Are Lem-Bob-Omb!" 46/50
Calm 18 "Clumps" 73/75
Calm 19 "Iron Industry" unsolvable

Windy 3 "You Lempty-Headed Creatures!" 49/50
Windy 11 "From Pillar to Post" 13/15
Windy 14 "The Landing Strip" 29/30
Windy 15 "For the Greater Good" 49/50
Windy 16 "Try to Compromise Before You Cue" 98/100
Windy 17 "X Marks Nothing" 29/30
Windy 19 "Mizmaze" 19/20

Stormy 2 "Bibbledi-Bobbledi-Boo" 4/5
Stormy 3 "Diamond Ribs" unsolvable
Stormy 4 "Rule of Three" 2/3
Stormy 5 "Timing & Space" 19/20
Stormy 6 "A Breezy Breeze" 24/25
Stormy 8 "Broad Pit" 29/30
Stormy 9 "A Matter of Pragmatism" 97/100
Stormy 12 "High Jump" 16/20
Stormy 13 "Hexakosioihexekontahexaphobiacs" 20/30
Stormy 14 "Lemesis" 9/10
Stormy 15 "So Logical" 9/10
Stormy 18 "Merchant Ship" unsolvable
Stormy 19 "Tree-Athlon" 87/100

Hurricane 1 "No Justice for Heroes" 39/45
Hurricane 3 "The Warehouse" 79/80
Hurricane 4 "Alea Iacta Est" 99/100
Hurricane 5 "Candelabrum" unsolvable
Hurricane 6 "Condemned to Die" probably unsolvable
Hurricane 7 "Stargazers" 19/20
Hurricane 9 "Blue Monday" 41/50
Hurricane 11 "The Great Breakout" 79/80
Hurricane 13 "The Barbarous Bars" 47/50
Hurricane 18 "A-maze-ing Factory" 3/4
Hurricane 19 "Balance Your Strategy" 19/20
Hurricane 20 "Cuba Libra" unsolvable

[Proxima]

So, here are some gameplay differences I've noticed  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

* As already mentioned, Lix can't have fake steel, and splatters can't explode.
* Lix has no one-way walls (the terrain remains the same but its one-way property is absent). This hasn't really come into play so far....
* Time is definitely tighter in Lix. "Nick of Time" was extremely hard to finish in time -- I had to adjust the RR back and forth when getting the workers started, then put it to 99 at the first possible moment, and still only just made it. RTW did it less efficiently and had more time to spare. "The Hiking Tour" was also very tight, but....
* The needle trap has a smaller trigger area, so on "The Hiking Tour" I could just delay assigning the climber and so didn't need the top bridge. With the spare bridge, I could turn the floater round so he made it in time.
* The exit on "Underground Water Storage" has its trigger fully buried. Fortunately, I found a solution saving the digger to uncover it.

As for the levels themselves, I am really enjoying them so far. Of the early lots-of-skills levels, my favourite was "Take on the World!" -- great fun to build everyone up towards the exit, a little reminiscent of the massive building on many 2-player levels. Of the later puzzles, "Mizmaze" is beautiful, and (apart from the time crunch in Lix, which you didn't intend) "Nick of Time" has a truly elegant solution.

[Proxima]

Thought I'd move on to the One levels, so I can try to get through them before RTW does   http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

I've done the first ten except for 5 and 7 ... due to Lix being tighter on time, those two will take more work.

Also, the sucker traps on "Swallowing Lemmings" have fewer frames in Lix, so you can't just set RR 99 and wait. You have to build from the bottom of the curve so the lix are contained, block under the trapdoor, RR 99 to get everyone out, then spam climbers. Using additional blockers to pack the crowd tighter, and text-editing the replay to assign all climbers in the same frame, I was able to save 40/50 -- don't know whether this is maximum.

[Proxima]

5 was possible with very accurate timing, but it didn't require any changes to the solution.

19 on the other hand... I finally got it, taking advantage of the fact that in Lix, when time runs out, it auto-nukes and then (as with a normal nuke) the lix blow up in the order they entered the level. So I made the one building to the exit bash as soon as he crossed the gap -- if I just let him finish building and walk, the lix in the crowd would be exiting but he (being the first out of the hatch) would blow up the terrain under the exit. Also, I had to make one lix block on the far right to shave half a second off the tail-enders' journey, and the blocker had to be the same lix who built the first bridge -- he would be too far back in the crowd to exit before he exploded, so if any other lix did the blocking I would save one too few.

[Akseli]

Okay, I gathered my best results so far.
Maximum saved Lemmings in PimoLems (result bolded if saved more than required):

Calm:
1. The Bad Beginning 100%
2. Training Day 100%
3. We Are Lem-Bob-Omb ! 92% (46/50)
4. Emerald Cave 98% (49/50)
5. Better Run for Shelter 100%
6. Lemming Falls 100%
7. Lemstones 98% (49/50)
8. Cloud-Covered Stalactite 100%
9. The Strange Relics of Lemnos 100%
10. It's a Kind of Lembourhood 100%
11. Minimal Design 100%
12. These Ain't No Jedi Swords 98% (49/50)
13. Lems, Stock, and Barrels 100%
14. Pagoda St 100%
15. Find Your Way Up! 100%
16. Don't Look Down ! 100%
17. YOU SHALL NOT PASS 100%
18. Clumps 98% (74/75)
19. Iron Industry 100%
20. Spring Break ! 100%

Windy:
1. Have A Lem Soda 100%
2. Return to the Fold 100%
3. You Lempty-Headed Creatures ! 96% (48/50)
4. Sandcastles in the Sand 100%
5. How Do I Turn Back ? 100%
6. Diggers Mania 100%
7. Take on the World ! 100%
8. Step by Step 100%
9. The Hiking Tour 100%
10. Me sorry, me lost... 100%
11. From Pillar to Post 86% (13/15)
12. Break the Ice 100%
13. Up the Abacus 100%
14. The Landing Strip 96% (29/30)
15. For the Greater Good 98% (49/50)
16. Try To Compromise Before You Cue 98% (98/100)
17. X Marks Nothing 100% (this solution was found by eschilo59)
18. Underground Water Storage 100%
19. Mizmaze 95% (19/20)
20. Nick of Time ! 100%

Stormy:
1. Pop'n'top 92% (23/25) (this solution is based on a solution found by roundthewheelrtw)
2. Bibbledi-Bobbledi-Boo 80% (4/5)
3. Diamond Ribs 100%
4. Rule of Three 66% (2/3)
5. Timing & Space 95% (19/20)
6. A Breezy Breeze ! 96% (24/25)
7. Diving Area 100% (this solution was found by Gronkling)
8. Broad Pit 90% (27/30)
9. A Matter of Pragmatism 97% (97/100)
10. Erbalunga 100%
11. Two Stragglers 100%
12. High Jump 80% (16/20)
13. Hexakosioihexekontahexaphobiacs 66% (20/30)
14. Lemesis 90% (9/10)
15. So Logical 90% (9/10)
16. Be Lem-Minded 100%
17. Leavin' on the Edge 100%
18. Merchant Ship 80% (4/5) (this solution was found by Gronkling)
19. Tree-Athlon 89% (89/100)
20. Let Them Eat Cake 98% (54/55)

Hurricane:
1. No Justice for Heroes 84% (37/45)
2. Come Hell or High Water... 100%
3. The Warehouse 97% (78/80)
4. Alea Iacta Est 98% (98/100)
5. Candelabrum 90% (9/10)
6. Condemned to Die 75% (3/4)
7. Stargazers 95% (19/20) (this solution was found by Gronkling)
8. Logs & Lag Lems 100%
9. Blue Monday 72% (36/50)
10. How to Prevent a Mass Suicide 100%
11. The Great Breakout 93% (75/80)
12. Rod Island 100%
13. The Barbarous Bars 100% (this solution is based on a solution found by eschilo59)
14. Droll Drill 100%
15. Stony Parkour 100%
16. Craving To Burrow 90% (9/10) (this solution is based on a solution found by Gronkling)
17. Prisoners of the Pun 100% (this solution was found by Gronkling)
18. A-maze-ing Factory 75% (3/4)
19. Balance your Strategy 95% (19/20)
20. Cuba Libra 100%

Pickaxe:
1. Zigzag World 100%
2. Thunderclap 100%
3. Out of Salt 100%
4. The Escape Artists 100%
5. Triumph For Their Magic Picks 93% (14/15)
6. Evil Sandglass 100%
7. Have Skills, Will Travel 100%
8. Miner under Control 85% (17/20)
9. Hugs & Kisses 100%
10. At Least I can Count to 10 90% (9/10)
11. Descent into Hell 98% (79/80)
12. Bricky Madness 95% (19/20)
13. The Drowning Walk 98% (79/80)
14. A Neat Climb-Down 100%
15. Unwilling Funambulist 88% (70/80) (this solution was found by Gronkling)
16. The Oblique Conundrum 87% (7/8)
17. Fish Fry 100%
18. Lemmings on the Road to Ruin 100%
19. Topsy-Turvy 100%
20. Eye of Rambaldi 86% (13/15)

One:
1. Swallowing Lemmings 58% (29/50)
2. Off-Centered 85% (17/20)
3. Square Dealing 100%
4. Extremely Lem & Incredibly Close 90% (27/30)
5. Temple Ruins 100%
6. The Magic Box 100%
7. Straight Forward 96% (48/50)
8. Baptised With a Perfect Name 97% (44/45)
9. Lemmings Will Be Lemmings... 100%
10. Bombing the Whole Way Home 85% (17/20)
11. Ice to Meet You 95% (19/20)
12. I See Led People 100%
13. Lems on the Lam 95% (19/20)
14. Eroding Time Switch 98% (49/50)
15. In Odd We Trust 90% (9/10)
16. For Crystal Sake ! 90% (9/10)
17. You'll Make Do ! 100%
18. Lines & Curves 60% (6/10)
19. Step on it ! 92% (46/50)
20. There's Rashness in the Method 75% (3/4)

Special:
1. The Lost Library 100%
2. The Fourth Musketeer 75% (3/4)
3. Marble Gallery 98% (49/50)

Extra:
1. Merry Xmas 1% (1/100)
2. Deep Forest 100%
3. In an Anthill 100%
4. Grassy Path 100%
5. Lemmings in a Box 100%
6. The Lemming Gallery 100%
7. Chilly Lemmings 95% (19/20)
8. Dark Valley 98% (79/80)
9. Be Cruel With Your Workers 80% (12/15)
10. Backward Train 100%
11. Diggin' the Air 100%
12. Fearsome Rain 77% (77/100)
13. Ground City 100%
14. The Big U-Turn 100%
15. Drip-Drip Drop 80% (16/20)
16. Maniac Mansion 95% (38/40)
17. Precision Bombing 91% (11/12) (this solution was found by Proxima)
18. Five Ways to Block a Lem 100%
19. Keep an Eye on Them 100%
20. Spoonerism 98% (49/50)

EDIT: Calm 8 100%, few Gronkling's records added and Proxima's 91% in Extra 17.
EDIT2: Now Extra 14 100% saved.

[Proxima]

Akseli and I had a long chat yesterday about our methods for various levels  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />  I can now confirm that 13/15 on From Pillar to Post works in Lix too (and I've added Mizmaze to the non-100% list; missing it out was just a casual slip, as it clearly does require the bomber).

I've done the first half of Stormy now. Pop'n'top is 100%, probably because of missing one-way walls. Diving Area is also 100%, and seemed very easy, so perhaps one-way walls there too?  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />  Broad Pit is 29/30, but Akseli confirmed this doesn't work in Lemmini.

Hexakosioihexekontahexaphobiacs is possible after all... just send the first bomber over and have him explode at the last moment before he splats, and they can actually get up. I guess I didn't try this before as it just looked so unlikely to work. My apologies.

[Akseli]

Levels that contain one-way walls (to help Lix players to think validity of their solutions in some cases):
Calm: 13
Windy: 9, 16
Stormy: 1, 7, 14
Hurricane: 1, 2, 3, 7, 8, 9, 11, 16, 17, 18, 20
Pickaxe: 1, 3, 13, 17, 18
One: 8, 9, 11, 13, 19
Special: none
Extra: 6, 15, 16, 17, 20

Sometimes it's not easy to know what is a glitch and what isn't, I think that because it doesn't happen on Original Lemmings but happens on Lemmini doesn't necessarily means it's a glitch. I've never considered the splatting bomber as a glitch, as it doesn't offend reason or anything (after all, as long as there's something left of the lemming on screen, it's likely to blow up, right?).

Yeah, I agree that the trick in "Hexakosioihexekontahexaphobiacs" doesn't seem so obscure due to reasons discussed http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=693.msg17437#msg17437" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">around here, there certainly are deaths that don't prevent the bomber countdown.

[Pieuw]

Wow wow wow, you've worked hard!

I'll have to take a closer look to your scores. It will help me to improve the levels and release a new version of the pack, but I really don't know if the Lix results will be useful since its mechanics seem pretty different from Lemmini's.

Awesome http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

[Proxima]

It varies. Sometimes a difference in result is easily attributed to a mechanics difference, such as the needle trap having a smaller trigger area. The absence of one-way walls is of course a big one that affects several levels. On the other hand, the Lix results have been useful, especially for simpler levels -- it was after Clam got 100% on Cloud-Covered Stalactite, and I got 11/12 on Precision Bombing, that Akseli was prompted to have another look at these levels. (And I think Emerald Cave and Lemstones are worth another look as well, though it might not work out.)

[Proxima]

Stormy complete... well, kind of. Four levels turned out to be impossible in Lix. "Diamond Ribs" and "Merchant Ship" have exit triggers buried in terrain. The former is possible to un-bury, but this uses up necessary skills and you can only save 6/20 (the level requires 100%). I've decided that in cases like this, I won't indicate the number possible to save on my list, I'll just put "impossible". After all, this is how Lix records it -- your best statistics are not saved unless you succeed in saving the number required.

"Leavin' on the Edge" and "Let Them Eat Cake" can't be solved as intended, as they rely on behaviours that don't exist in Lix. But both levels can be solved by other methods (thanks, Clam!) The former is quite ingenious, and I'd be interested to see whether it works in Lemmini. The latter is just building straight up to the exit.

I found unique solutions to "So Logical" and "Be Lem-Minded" that require Lix-specific behaviours, but the normal solutions are possible as well. Stormy maximum saved records have been added to the above post.

[Proxima]

And Hurricane's almost done. (I haven't done 15 or 19 yet, but Clam has.) We think 5, 6 and 20 are impossible in Lix, for various reasons. On 5, the basher stops if there's any steel in his terrain removal mask, so the intended solution definitely doesn't work, and I don't know of any other solution.

Notes on 6 (Condemned to Die) in spoiler text, as they reveal most of the solution:

In Lix, you can make the first lix bomb before the trap kills him with just a basher, so you have a builder spare. However, bashers turn around when they hit steel, so in order for the lix bashing along the top to exit in time, he must be given the spare builder so he stops early.

The rest of the solution almost works, but not quite. For the builder to cross the large gap before the climber catches up, he has to stretch his bridges. If he does this, he will hit the steel and turn, and won't exit in time. As there are no leftover skills and no choices about where to assign skills once you know the solution, I just don't see any way around this.

In general, the Hurricane levels have more intricate solutions and so are much more vulnerable to being affected by mechanics differences. However, I still enjoyed solving them!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />  My favourite is definitely 10 "How to Prevent a Mass Suicide" -- the solution to that one is beautiful, and the level itself is a work of art. "Rod Island" is also very ingenious and elegant. (And since I forgot to mention this last time, my favourite Stormy levels are the same ones everyone likes, "Lemesis" and "So Logical", which have very nice, clear solutions.)

I beat Akseli's records on quite a few levels, but several of these are just because of mechanics differences or lack of one-way wall. Some of them might transfer to Lemmix; I'll have to consult Akseli about this when I get the chance. I didn't match his record on 13; I have an idea how it might be possible, but if I'm right, it won't work in Lix because climbers can go through the ceiling and die.