jLevelBuilder 1.88 (june, 9th 2021)

[LJLPM]

Thanks for your help. I really have to fix some obvious bugs and code the "Save Lemmini file" option before releasing a beta of the program.

About the in-game music (if any), it will use .mp3 files.

[geoo]

You meant this, right?  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />
-> new "Group" option added: see the list of level's entities: one group is made of the 15 first items (including "eraser/noOw/OoT" attributes), and, then, acts as a single normal item (the very first tree on the left is made of 15 items, whereas the 5 next trees are single items / inserted item #17 is selected)

Pretty much, even though I had a recursive definition in mind. Can't see it from the picture, do erasers inside a group ONLY erase terrain within their own group (that's what I had in mind)? So realizing http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=794.msg16870#msg16870" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">this trick now is just erasing a bit from the piece of dirt, grouping them, and then putting the steel block behind it? It still works if afterwards I group the steel block with the other two things? (That's why I was thinking recursively, but maybe there are other ways to do that.)

only one more thing: If you're making sound/music whether using old or new, could you use a file format that is easy to work with like mp3, wav, MIDI etc. That would make it easy for users to create their own music and or sounds
[yes I know MIDI sounds different on different machines, and some of you think mp3 is bad again these are just minor things; it's better imo to have to deal with that then MOD files Lemmini uses, or some other obscure file format that's difficult to work with] Plus is a game so it doesn't need to sound pristine  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

How on earth is MIDI easier to work with than MOD? Just because you can find all your favourite pop songs as MIDI on the internet, but not as MOD? You can convert any MIDI easily into a tracker format like .IT or .XM (which I'd expect to be supported if MOD is supported). Vice versa? Not so much.
(And sure not format-wise. I know someone who wrote a music converter for a Genesis music format, and he used MOD instead of MIDI because the format of MIDI is such a mess, apparently.)

And just nitpicking, why didn't you list OGG vorbis? It's just as easy to work with as MP3 (unsurprisingly, both are just compressed wave formats), and my impression is that the free MP3 encoders (LAME, particularly) don't quite produce the same sound quality as an OGG encoder for the same file size (commercial encoders might be a different story, but yeah, commercial). And I'm saying this not being one of those sound connoisseurs who'd just love to have a single music file occupy their entire hard drive because QUALITY!

As for vertical one-way walls, I feel the behaviour would be a bit inconsistent if you can't bash through them: you can dig vertically through a horizontal OWW, but not horizontally through a vertical one? But I agree it'd make them more useful unless you put in gravity for lemmings in all directions.

[LJLPM]

do erasers inside a group ONLY erase terrain within their own group (that's what I had in mind)? So realizing http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=794.msg16870#msg16870" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">this trick now is just erasing a bit from the piece of dirt, grouping them, and then putting the steel block behind it? It still works if afterwards I group the steel block with the other two things?

Yes, erasers affect their own group only and nothing else (see screenshot below). But, keep in mind that groups are neither supported in .lvl files nor in Lemmini's level files, so this feature will be only available in my game (as well as the "90° Rotation" and "Left/Right Inversion" options)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/839/h1cn.png/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/1866/h1cn.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

[mobius]

only one more thing: If you're making sound/music whether using old or new, could you use a file format that is easy to work with like mp3, wav, MIDI etc. That would make it easy for users to create their own music and or sounds
[yes I know MIDI sounds different on different machines, and some of you think mp3 is bad again these are just minor things; it's better imo to have to deal with that then MOD files Lemmini uses, or some other obscure file format that's difficult to work with] Plus is a game so it doesn't need to sound pristine  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

How on earth is MIDI easier to work with than MOD? Just because you can find all your favourite pop songs as MIDI on the internet, but not as MOD? You can convert any MIDI easily into a tracker format like .IT or .XM (which I'd expect to be supported if MOD is supported). Vice versa? Not so much.
(And sure not format-wise. I know someone who wrote a music converter for a Genesis music format, and he used MOD instead of MIDI because the format of MIDI is such a mess, apparently.)

And just nitpicking, why didn't you list OGG vorbis? It's just as easy to work with as MP3 (unsurprisingly, both are just compressed wave formats), and my impression is that the free MP3 encoders (LAME, particularly) don't quite produce the same sound quality as an OGG encoder for the same file size (commercial encoders might be a different story, but yeah, commercial). And I'm saying this not being one of those sound connoisseurs who'd just love to have a single music file occupy their entire hard drive because QUALITY!

As for vertical one-way walls, I feel the behaviour would be a bit inconsistent if you can't bash through them: you can dig vertically through a horizontal OWW, but not horizontally through a vertical one? But I agree it'd make them more useful unless you put in gravity for lemmings in all directions.

OGG vorbis, as far as I know is only available or at least readily known about to Linux users.
I have (a commercial) Adobe Audition and I can open up/edit mp3, wav, MIDI and a number of others but NOT; mod, OGG and everything else you mentioned.

Personally, I can hardly notice the difference between formats which people tell me annoys them so much. It also depends on the program playing the sound. Older versions of Adobe Flash for example play mp3's horribly if it's not set-up correctly

being a person who plays instruments, MIDI is sometimes a real heaven sent, because you can plug things in and they work right away, and I can record stuff on my computer easily. No set up, no fiddling around trying to get the damn thing to work because it isn't compatible. I also find MOD's sound quality pretty bad, unless that's just the songs themselves. On the other hands MIDI sounds different depending on your computer. But yeah, MIDI isn't the best for a program like this maybe.

btw, I can't find all my favorite pop songs as MIDI, don't know what you're talking about there...

---------
If you can bash through a downward one way wall, then what is the point to it? It has no effect it hasn't restricted you from doing anything;  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />
unless, you mean that you don't want to be able to mine through it; or do something in another direction with another gravity direction. It just makes sense to me to be able to dig and mine (both vertical) but not bash (horizontal)

[geoo]

Alright, that looks nice. Yeah, obviously that cannot be used for the standard formats, or at least will result in some weird changes to the level if exported.

As for the vertical OWWs, I'm not saying it's better to have bashers bash through these, I'm just saying it's more consistent. Yes, it'd make downward OWWs completely useless.

mobius: Ok, so because some arbitrary commercial piece of software that you happen to use supports one format but not the other OGG is more complicated. Hey look, FastTracker2 supports MOD but not MIDI, so MIDI must be more complicated! What now? Either way, I suppose the only reason Adobe Audition doesn't support OGG is hubris or fear of open software growing, as the ogg en- and decoders are under BSD license and thus can also be used freely by commercial software. EDIT: Simon reminded me, Clones actually uses ogg vorbis. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />
And Adobe Flash is a music player now? If you're referring to music embedded in those files, that might be because the actual music is being downsampled by Adobe Flash to keep the file size of the swf smaller.
Honestly, I don't have a big preference for ogg over mp3 as I don't hear every tiny difference in music quality, but I just kinda prefer open standards. And only known to Linux users or even only working on Linux? Newsflash, I'm sitting at a Windows machine at this moment.
One last thing, MOD sounding worse then MIDI, are you flippin' serious? Maaaaaaaybe some MODs from crappy artists compared to MIDIs that were made for a certain soundfont which you just happen to use, but the Windows soundfont, which seems to be de facto standard, makes most MIDIs sound atrocious. http://modarchive.org/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Modarchive.org would like to have a word with you: Listen to some music by Skaven for instance, I doubt anything using the Windows sound font comes even close to that.
I see what you're getting at, yes, mp3 and midi are more popular, but that doesn't automatically make them a better choice just because you don't have to leave your comfort zone of that piece of commercial software you're currently using. I assume you're typing on a QWERTY keyboard right now, the most popular choice, which was designed to slow down your typing, in essence.

[mobius]

These were my personal preferences, I have tried using OGG and a few other sound editing programs. I found I like Adobe better. I never said anything was more/less complicated. And I am flippin' serious I think the MIDI music from WinLems sounds better (I would say "cleaner") then the MOD music of Lemmini which honestly sounds a little distorted for some reason. Again it depends on the computer so maybe my sound card is really good for MIDI or something
I have a lot of music on my computer it it would be nice to put ANY or most formats into a game I'd like to play. But first and foremost, I'm less likely to get involved if I first have to download some program to convert stuff.
But I really don't care anymore, frankly I'm tired of having these conversations. Sorry I keep upsetting you with my sloppy writing.

[LJLPM]

Alright, that looks nice.

You can even group a whole level as a single item actually...

By the way, I've just added the "Save Lemmini Level" option (so now we can load & save Lemmini files) http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/gnm6.png/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/831/gnm6.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/cdec.png/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3059/cdec.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

[mobius]

when we can we download it and try it out? I'm excited to see it in action.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

[LJLPM]

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> There are still bugs that need to be fixed + I would like to add some new features. I think I still have work for more than a month (dev isn't very fast because I work on the level-editor in my spare time).

[LJLPM]

Good news here!

I've added a feature I had in mind for some days: the "Brush" mode ; it allows you to continuously draw a selected tile as long as you hold your mouse's button while moving your mouse http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

Combined with snap settings, it makes perfect tile alignments a quick & easy process (for example, see the steel-made pattern in the screenshot below: it was made using a single click held along a path http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />). I wanted to add this feature because I wanted a fast & handy way to use a single element multiple times.

And if you don't use snap settings, then you can shape a landscape with no constraints on the X and Y axises (see the eraser-made tunnel). A very cool feature to design never-seen-before-in-Lemmings landscapes http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

I really want to make an app that provides fast and efficient ways to design levels, hence the new "Brush" mode is a nice addition to the level-editor.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/xcma.png/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2702/xcma.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/s3a.png/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://imageshack.us/a/img824/9517/s3a.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

[Minim]

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" /> That's very clever! So that's one of the tricks up your sleeve (in other words features).

As you're planning to improve on this project, I notice that the only option I couldn't see is the Screen Start. Where can you find it on this editor?

[mobius]

there was one more thing I wanted to add, something I thought of that exists in Lix as a feature but I forgot what it was. But don't feel like I'm pressuring you anymore, anyway. As it is, this already looks like the most powerful Lemmings editor yet.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

[LJLPM]

I notice that the only option I couldn't see is the Screen Start. Where can you find it on this editor?

What is the "Screen Start" option for, please?
In the editor, there is a "File > New Level" option (it clears the current level in the editor), as well as a "Start Pos X" option (in the game, sets the player's position on X when starting a level). The "Start Pos Y" option is here in case I need this for my own game, but for Lemmings levels, it will always be set to 0, of course.

there was one more thing I wanted to add...

Feel free to submit your ideas for the editor, I'll see what I can do.

[Minim]

I notice that the only option I couldn't see is the Screen Start. Where can you find it on this editor?

What is the "Screen Start" option for, please?
In the editor, there is a "File > New Level" option (it clears the current level in the editor), as well as a "Start Pos X" option (in the game, sets the player's position on X when starting a level).

Oh. I didn't realise that you've renamed it to "Start Pos X". OK then.

[LJLPM]

Can you add support for .lvl files too?

It's not finished yet (I have to fix/tweak some things), but it's on its way Finished. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> (the "Load" option at least... it's, then, possible to save the level as a Lemmini's .ini file). I'll see later for the "Save .lvl" option.

http://imageshack.us/a/img856/1769/5moj.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

http://imageshack.us/a/img194/6026/hz0.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />