Level design contest #1 - results!

[Crane]

Well, despite me falling out of sight for a while and being a bit below standards in places, I did submit my intended official solution to geoo eventually.  Perhaps one day soon I can fix the final backroutes.  I do have one other one-of-everything level, but I chose Prize Catch over that one.  It's been a good contest and a bit of a wake-up call to the standards expected.

Another contest theme idea:

- "Commando" level... either just one lemming, or two lemmings out of separate trapdoors.

[geoo]

Crane: Thanks for sending me your solution! I'll see whether I can enforce the solution. What is your other 1-of-each level, I'd be curious to see it.
And I don't think you have to worry about matching standards, now having seen your solution, I think it is still a pretty difficult level. And while the contest encouraged designing hard levels, I deliberately also wanted to appeal to people who don't want to design an uber hard level with the other two categories (I know Akseli didn't aim for as hard as possible, at least).

Gronkling: Are you going to fix the backroute to the last version of your level?

Proxima: If you read mobius' spoiler, you don't have to feel that bad about it as there's a solution that doesn't use this move, and I find that solution more elegant to boot. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

Akseli: Looks like you introduced a new backroute with that terrain there. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Solution attached.
Simon has also made a few singleplayer levels for lix, not super hard, but enjoyable. And I think ccexplore has made levels for CustLemm/Lemmix, Lix, Lemmings 2 and Cheapo, I think about 3 or so for each. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

Clam's level was the one that took me longest to solve. I was inclined to rate it hardest first, but I found the solution Steve's level more involved (even though it didn't take me as long to find I think), so I ranked Clam's second hardest. Still, seems like I rated it way higher than everyone else did.

[Gronkling]

Makes the solution even more obvious but blegh  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" /> At least it's not on something like v27 like a few levels I've made before.

Every single level in this pack was fun. I'm not sure I can say anything that hasn't already been said! And yes a lix pack would be cool (even though I never really got into it) and is this contest's levels going to be submitted as a level pack for the level pack database?

[Akseli]

I vote that Clam's level is definitely harder than Akseli's http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />

That's how I rated these levels also. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Though Excel file indicates some contradictions with the amounts of solvers: 7 people solved my level, and 9 people solved Clam's level (8 the final version). Also, some levels may change by difficulty still to some extent due to last backroute fixes, like Prize Catch maybe.

(I know Akseli didn't aim for as hard as possible, at least).
Akseli: Looks like you introduced a new backroute with that terrain there. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Solution attached.

Yeah, and my intention also in the upcoming contests is to make more fun than hard levels. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />
I was suspecting something like this with my level, so I asked solutions, thanks. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Fortunately it seems only to be a steel area issue, but I still now named my level "v4" for clarification purposes.

[geoo]

Yeah, with the additional steel this doesn't seem to work anymore. Though you could also have place a trap on top there, to make it more clear to the player that he isn't supposed to go there. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

Though Excel file indicates some contradictions with the amounts of solvers: 7 people solved my level, and 9 people solved Clam's level (8 the final version). Also, some levels may change by difficulty still to some extent due to last backroute fixes, like Prize Catch maybe.

I suppose if you take out my votes, then Clam's level would have ended up quite a bit lower than yours. It seems like I rated Clam's level notably higher than everyone else, and yours a bit lower than everyone else.

I tried to fix up Crane's level, attached is a new version where I try to eliminate all the found backroutes.

Gronkling: Yeah, for the pack I submit to the levelpack database I want to include the latest version of each level, i.e. the ones that are posted here.
mobius: I like the new version of your level (it also fixes the glitch route), though I'm inclined to include the older version instead to keep it consistent with the 1-of-each skill theme.

[Proxima]

geoo: As I said, I agree with you; I just haven't voted on the difficulty as I don't know most of the intended solutions yet. But to be more explicit, I found Akseli's level to be the easiest out of all nine. And so far, Clam's seems to be one of the hardest, because there's very little room to experiment and try different approaches. Though I can save 50%, so maybe I'm getting close....

möbius: Doesn't matter now as Clam has hidden it, but I was referring to your hinting at the solution to Steve's level, not your own.

[Clam]

I'd be interested to see how you got to 50%, so I can see if you're on the right path or not. I had a play just now and found that you can save 6 (one less than required) with a simple backroutish method, so it's quite possible that the level is misleading you http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

the only reason I couldn't solve Insane Steve's level is because

I thought it was impossible to free a blocker by having a walker dig him out.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/angry.gif" alt=">" title="Angry" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/angry.gif" alt=">" title="Angry" class="smiley" />

My v5 solution, which Steve accepted as intended, does not require that move.  I did use that move in my v4 solution though.

Come to think of it, the only thing Steve did to try to eliminate solutions like my v4 was through the time limit.  As I was reviewing that solution again, I wonder if I can tweak it and make it work on the v5 level...... [update: yes I can, but looks like a couple of people solved v5 more or less like that, and I guess Steve left them in as acceptable to avoid tempting the Brickout god]

And so far, Clam's seems to be one of the hardest, because there's very little room to experiment and try different approaches.

I get your point, but I think it cuts both ways.  Some of the levels in the contest appear to provide a number of potential routes that only do not work out, and I find them hard just because it keeps you experimenting on wrong things.

Anyway, interesting how many people seem to find Clam's level difficult.  Obviously I'm not one of them as I already got the intended solution back in v1, but maybe I just got lucky.

I'd be interested to see how you got to 50%, so I can see if you're on the right path or not. I had a play just now and found that you can save 6 (one less than required) with a simple backroutish method, so it's quite possible that the level is misleading you http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

Some levels in the contest become quite easy (or at least quite a bit easier) if you can save one less than required, so yeah, that can be very misleading.

[ccexplore]

I tried to fix up Crane's level, attached is a new version where I try to eliminate all the found backroutes.

Attached replay is the minimal changes I made to my v7 solution to solve your v8......

[geoo]

Yes, that's the intended route. Unlike everyone else's, you route actually was somewhat close to the intended one.

[ccexplore]

Yes, that's the intended route. Unlike everyone else's, you route actually was somewhat close to the intended one.

Interesting, but...

I would've thought both exits would get used, which hasn't been the case so far with my solutions including the v8 one.  That aspect not important enough to be enforced I guess?

[Adam]

Shame I missed this contest.. I'm getting the urge to design some levels. Do we have a date set for the next one?

[Crane]

Yes, that's the intended route. Unlike everyone else's, you route actually was somewhat close to the intended one.

Interesting, but...

I would've thought both exits would get used, which hasn't been the case so far with my solutions including the v8 one.  That aspect not important enough to be enforced I guess?

That is indeed the intended solution, hence the "prize catch".  Some differences in the order of tools is permissible, but they were all in the right places, near enough.

The left exit is a 'troll exit'!

I'll see if I can polish the level a bit to make it more aesthetically pleasing.

It is supposed to be possible to climb the poles protecting the left exit so you can dig down and build, but you run out of time trying to complete it this way.

In the meantime, here is my other 1-of-everything level if anyone's curious:

[ccexplore]

It is supposed to be possible to climb the poles protecting the left exit so you can dig down and build, but you run out of time trying to complete it this way.

Interesting.

As you may be aware, geoo's v8 of your level prevents climb/dig/build for the left exit.  That's probably for the best anyway, as I think it would be a bit annoying to leave that route open and yet have it fail merely due to time, especially if it doesn't seem too far off time-wise.

[Crane]

I'll admit it's a bit of a d**k move.

I may make the structure a bit higher so the time is more off and it becomes apparent that you can't go that way.

I have a thing for artistic presentation too, so I'll try to clean up his fixes a bit.  If you're up for another challenge, take a look at "Tier Drops" - the attachment's on the previous post.  I thought I had backrouted it just now, but thankfully it was averted at the very end, so no modifications needed!

EDIT: Actually I did just backroute it - bah!