Level Review – DoveLems

[Akseli]

I would've preferred that ledge on the left not being there then the level would've been symmetrical in that you could go at it from either direction..

Yeah, the ledge was missing at first but then it came out to force the use of the basher and make the solution asymmetric.


Coward 19 - Look into the Telescope

http://geoo.digibase.ca/lemmings/DovelemsPictures/C19.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

Lemmings: 40
Save: 24 (60%)
Release rate: 20
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 2 floaters, 2 bombers, 2 blockers, 10 builders, 2 bashers, 2 miners, 2 diggers

Good: It's a familiar and safe level in the style of many levels in the original Lemmings game, which is a bit quaint in this level set.

Bad: This has always been the weirdest level for me in DoveLems, and I still don't understand it thoroughly. Maybe Dodochacalo tried to do something else with the level without succeeding, and then just didn't want to abandon the whole level but retained it in this state. Should be a Plain rating level due to difficulty, and even then the save requirement is really low.

Note: This level is actually updated on July 2013 (after we started this thread), and the changes are a different title, decreasing the amount of lemmings to 30, adding 2 climbers, changing RR to 40, raising save requirement to 86% and some visual details, but the level functions just like earlier.

[mobius]

I agree Look into the Telescope ought to be moved earlier in the pack, a better candidate for the first rating imo. I still really like the level though, the decoration is nice.

Btw, a fun way to solve this level (and a way that saves time and skills) is to go down to the bottom left and let them take the 'stair' up.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> Maybe that was some part of a possible unfinished plan Dodo had. It might have been nice to see this as a repeat with a harder challenge.

Coward 20 - It's Not an Illusion !

http://geoo.digibase.ca/lemmings/DovelemsPictures/C20.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

Lemmings: 50
Save: 86%
Release rate: 40
Time: 1 minutes
Skills: 7 blockers

Good: The design is interesting to look at and is almost like an optical illusion (hence the title (in part) I assume). The challenge is a different one.

Bad: This honestly isn't one of my favorite levels. It demonstrates a glitch in Lemmini, which I personally don't care about, but there's also a chance that a player won't even discover the glitch. The time limit is useless and only makes you have to multi task a tiny bit and just isn't very satisfying imo.
A better challenge for me would've been something like "Save Me". Then even with a small time limit I think I'd find it more interesting.

[Akseli]

Coward 20 - It's Not an Illusion !
It demonstrates a glitch in Lemmini, which I personally don't care about, but there's also a chance that a player won't even discover the glitch.

I'm pretty sure that you're talking about asymmetric blocker fields. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> In my opinion this level surely hasn't been designed because of that issue, it's just a side effect of the game mechanics. I love the main idea of the illusion, but I actually have to admit that I am not that big a fan of this level either. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> I was a bit surprised that this certain level got really high praises in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTlg3eMac9w" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">rtw's Let's Play video from rtw, Crane and PhyresisGaming, for example. So, really nice that there are people who love this level. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />


Coward 21 - Death Camp

http://geoo.digibase.ca/lemmings/DovelemsPictures/C21.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

Lemmings: 30
Save: 96% (29)
Release Rate: 80
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 2 climbers, 1 bomber, 8 builders, 3 bashers, 1 miner

This is a repeat level of http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=731.msg15820#msg15820" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Concentration Camp.

Good: An intimidating feeling level, ramps the action up from its prequel pretty niftily. Has few tight puzzle solutions, and saving a skill is possible with some shrewdness. A nice factory atmosphere, the level looks like it is built to be -- a Lemmings level. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

Bad: The notoriously overly big squisher trigger area, which leads to skill placement evaluation challenges - and often restarting the level!

[Akseli]

Coward 22 - The Giant Stairway

http://geoo.digibase.ca/lemmings/DovelemsPictures/C22.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

Lemmings: 50
Save: 100% (50)
Release Rate: 60
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 10 climbers, 10 floaters, 10 bombers, 10 blockers, 8 builders

Good: A memorable level in late Coward rating having 8 entrances. I'm pretty sure that, for me, this was the first level ever in Lemmings I played that had over 4 entrances, and because the multiple hatch thing really worked in this level, it amazed me in a profound manner. Some redundant seeming skills might ease playing this level. A fun level for sure, and the pacing is set so the level can be played without pausing at all.

Bad: I would have wanted that constructing a both-directions-working giant stairway had been easier and more natural, now it's challenging to implement it and solve the level at the same time. This level also is a very simple one for its place in late Coward.

[mobius]

Coward 23 - Ask the Oracle

http://geoo.digibase.ca/lemmings/DovelemsPictures/C23.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

Lemmings: 50
Save: 94% (47)
Release Rate: 35
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 10 climbers, 10 floaters, 10 bombers, 10 blockers, 8 builders, 3 bashers

this level is a repeat of Can You Bomb It?

Good: the design is really cool, I love the maze concept. The solution is very clever and is hidden really well in the layout. I don't mind that you don't get to actually go through the maze because you did in Can you bomb it?

Bad: I don't like the way wood covers over part of the exit.

[Wafflem]

http://geoo.digibase.ca/lemmings/DovelemsPictures/C24.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />
Coward 24 - Lemmings-Digging Iron Plates
20 Lemmings, 100% to be saved
Release Rate 1
4 minutes
1 climber, 10 bombers, blockers, bashers, miners and diggers

Good: Nice to change things up a bit by mixing fake steel with real steel. You also have to discern the meaning of the position of the small steel blocks. The only other level that uses this approach (but is easier) is "Iron Industry" in Pieuw's PimoLems.

Bad: This one feels like a trial-and-error sort of level, and it can be frustrating.

[grams88]

Hi DynaLem

I really enjoyed that level, it made a change I thought.

[mobius]

I actually thought this one is easier then Pieuw's because in Iron Industry you don't have any clues in the graphics to help you.

[mobius]

http://geoo.digibase.ca/lemmings/DovelemsPictures/C25.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

Coward 25 - Academy of Eight
7 Lemmings, 6 to be saved
Release Rate 99
1 minutes
skills: 1 of each

Good: The theme is cute and fun. Each lemming having 1 skill to use is a neat idea. The layout is also very attractive. The design is also compact yet intricate.

Bad: Originally there were eight lemming and one died automatically; I'm guessing that was thought to be pointless. Having eight lemmings and using everyone would be a better change imo; then at least there wouldn't be the oddity of having only 7 lemmings in a level entitled "Academy of Eight".

[Akseli]

I actually thought this one is easier then Pieuw's because in Iron Industry you don't have any clues in the graphics to help you.

So, you don't see the clues in Iron Industry? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Well, there are clues to point out the route, otherwise it would be a dull trial-and-error level. Given that you haven't seen the clues they aren't too easy to become aware of then I'd guess!

By the way, totally agreed with the Academy of Eight, why to remove the 8th lemming? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" /> Otherwise a great, classic level, might even have given influence to some other authors and custom levels after it. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />


Coward 26 - Let Him Go Alone . . .

http://geoo.digibase.ca/lemmings/DovelemsPictures/C26.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

Lemmings: 50
Save: 100% (50)
Release Rate: 30
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 4 builders, 2 bashers, 5 diggers

Good: An absolutely spectacular, mind-blowing solution. No obscure or unintuitive details there, but the real magic of this level arises from the ingenious combination of really familiar skills, which creates an effective, tremendous crowd control method. At one point two years ago I even considered this level to be one of the best Lemmings custom levels ever, if not the very best one. That can't be the case though, see the Bad section below. A unique, beautiful landscape with many delightful details, like the tree leaves surrounding the steel block and the cluster of vine traps at the right edge of the level. Has a hidden exit, but fortunately its location is rather clear, giving even more mystification to this fascinating world.

Bad: Unfortunately has an easy and uninteresting backroute compared to the intended solution. Has also a third solution that's pixel precise and hard to execute, but obviously not that interesting either. (This level is accidentally well-placed in terms of difficulty, without the backroutes this should be in Maso rating.) If the French Lemmings giant will get rid of the backroutes, then this level would undoubtedly be a really shining gem.

[Wafflem]

http://geoo.digibase.ca/lemmings/DovelemsPictures/C27.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />
Coward 27 - Molotov Cocktail and Co
60 lemmings, 96% (58) to be saved
Release Rate 90
2 minutes
10 bombers and blockers, 40 diggers

Good: Gotta love that digger trick in the level, it makes it a lot of fun.

Bad: I'm not too sure about the inclusion of the bombers and blockers. Were they meant to throw the player off? Also, the level can be frustrating when you cannot select other lemmings within range of the lemming that is digging (i.e. it thinks you are clicking on the digger when you mean to click on the walking lemming).

[Akseli]

I'm not too sure about the inclusion of the bombers and blockers. Were they meant to throw the player off?

Ooh, you dug the middle wall (below the vertical steel wall) also, nice 100% saved! You can lose two (blocker-)bombers there if you want to, I could imagine that digging that wall is fiddly. A really nice point with the annoying lemming selection mechanic there, too! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> By the way, there's a little typo in the level title, it should be "Molotov", not "Moltov".


Coward 28 - Valley of Chameleons

http://geoo.digibase.ca/lemmings/DovelemsPictures/C28.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

Lemmings: 80
Save: 97% (78)
Release Rate: 1
Time: 6 minutes
Skills: 2 climbers, 1 floater, 2 bombers, 10 builders, 3 bashers, 3 miners

Good: At a very quick first sight this level might seem an endurance type of a level (a lengthy level with lots of spare skills and a brute-force solution in the way of original Lemmings game), but soon the level turns out to be something else. Valley of Chameleons is a significantly massive, magnificent and beautiful Rock puzzle level in various ways. I love when someone puts this much effort in concretely constructing a level, and in this unique case the outcome is simply superior to like anything that there's ever been in terms of visual level design in Lemmings. Partly because of this, this level approaches even deeper subjects than just being another puzzle level in a puzzle game. It becomes an adventure, the player might even just grow urge to spend time with the level and enjoy its atmosphere. In addition to that that in my opinion this is by far the most gorgeous-looking Rock tileset Lemmings level there is (and evidently one of the best-looking levels of all time), the puzzle itself is really strong and enjoyable. Strategizing skill placements has to be done from the beginning of the level smoothly all the way to the end. The obstacles and the strategies vary more than usually in a single level, and all the little puzzle pieces of the entire level are not too tough to solve, so the playing experience is pleasant and fun. The last part of the level is a bit trickier than the other parts, though, giving a final challenge. As far as I know, this level has only one known solution that uses every single skill. Valley of Chameleons represents pretty much everything that I love in Lemmings level design.

Ladies and gentlemen, this level is a masterpiece.

Bad: Better English speakers than me could probably tell if there lacks (one or two) "the" word(s) from the title. This level is pretty unforgiving, if you make a mistake especially near the end, even replaying with fast forward might cause some frustration in the worst case. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Is so tough a level that it should be in a later rating, maybe even in Maso.

[Wafflem]

I'm not too sure about the inclusion of the bombers and blockers. Were they meant to throw the player off?

Ooh, you dug the middle wall (below the vertical steel wall) also, nice 100% saved! You can lose two (blocker-)bombers there if you want to, I could imagine that digging that wall is fiddly. A really nice point with the annoying lemming selection mechanic there, too! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> By the way, there's a little typo in the level title, it should be "Molotov", not "Moltov".

I've actually used the bombers for the middle part of the wall, but looking at it now, I could see that this level could do without the bombers and blockers, and by upping the requirement to 100%, it would make the level more challenging. A very fun level otherwise.

And great job with how you reviewed Valley of Chameleons, especially how you described it as like an adventure. I agree that it belongs in Maso due to the fact that you have to have good timing.

And thanks, I'll go ahead and fix the typo.

http://geoo.digibase.ca/lemmings/DovelemsPictures/C29.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />
Coward 29 - Sky Won't Help You
80 lemmings, 100% to be saved
Release rate 20
3 minutes
10 climbers, 10 floaters, 20 builders, 10 bashers, 10 diggers

Good: Another builder level with a twist, as there are upside-down pools preventing the player from building way too high. This one also feels like a breather level after many previous hard levels.

Bad: This one's also misplaced. It might work better as a mid-Coward level. Also, I think the level can do with less builders, and the climbers and floaters aren't necessary.

[namida]

Bad: Better English speakers than me could probably tell if there lacks (one or two) "the" word(s) from the title.

It's fine both with or without them. "Valley of Chameleons", "The Valley of Chameleons", "Valley of the Chameleons", "The Valley of the Chameleons"... all of these are perfectly valid English. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> In certain contexts, only specific ones might be correct, but as a level name, any of them are fine.

[mobius]

I actually thought this one is easier then Pieuw's because in Iron Industry you don't have any clues in the graphics to help you.

So, you don't see the clues in Iron Industry? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Well, there are clues to point out the route, otherwise it would be a dull trial-and-error level. Given that you haven't seen the clues they aren't too easy to become aware of then I'd guess!

Coward 26 - Let Him Go Alone . . .

oh, those clues are much harder to see than Digging Iron Plates! I had to read Pieuw's comment to discover it. But then I wasn't looking real hard to see clues in the first place...
Btw, I guess this level's title is inspired from "Lemmings Praying Iron Plate" from Genesis; which I've always wondered what that meant.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />

On Let him go alone... I must say I was a bit disappointed, given your high praise of the level I was expecting something different. When I finally found the solution I thought I actually found the annoying backroute. I don't say the level is bad, I don't find it as problematic as rtw said for example, but I certainty wouldn't call it near the best level ever. The crowd control method is ingenious non-the-less.
I believe I came across the intended solution first but gave up seeing the easier solution.
Now I'm curious what the pixel precise backroute is.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />

Valley of Chameleons is my favorite level from DoveLems. I remember spending a lot of time on the level and it wasn't very frustrating at all. When playing I considered the possibility of a hidden exit on that top ledge near the middle. This level has the feeling of having lots of secrets like that. The only down side I see is that the chameleons don't play much part other than decoration.
It must be very difficult to make a lengthy level that doesn't become tiring or frustrating. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

Dodochacalo seems to have a habit of placing water traps at the bottom of the level, so far under that they often don't even trigger. [The lemming 'eeks' off screen instead of drowning] I wonder why?