Undamaged Levels (ONML etc.)

[ccexplore]

Here's Frost 8 undamaged 100%, arguably glitch-free.  (No, not the answer to http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=654.msg14382#msg14382" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">the question.  I'll avoid revealing that one for a few more days giving everyone a chance.)

Interestingly, Clam http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=114.45" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">mentioned the possibility of a builders-only 100% solution on this level, but looks like it hasn't actually been confirmed, despite what was put into that thread's OP.  Good thing I can use more than builders here.

[mobius]

I have to think about this.  I actually do find the whole blocker thing a bit glitch-like, because if memory serves not only can you merely walk on top of the blocker, but you can do strange things like dig down through it.  It doesn't affect the blocker lemming himself but effectively removes a few cells of blocker field for each stroke of digging.  This digging behavior is pretty glitch-like, but maybe merely the walking part can be considered no.

I say call it a glitch. Considering what you said plus I don't think it's really 'intended' function. It's not something that happens in any other Lemmings game (that I'm aware).

I actually haven't played that far into Lemmings Revolution yet (I kinda stopped playing shortly after Xmas last year, though I'd like to resume and complete the game at some point), so I'll have to look more into it to see what the impossibility was about, and why it is of interest so say anything about ignoring some of the obstacles.

I say 'impossible' because the entrance is completely surrounded by terrain on almost all sides. The only thing I can think of is going through the ceiling but I think it's a slim chance.  I tried that—even if it could work; you'd have to end up digging through terrain anyway. [Unless we discover a glitch where lemmings randomly transport across the level. At this point it's not looking too far-fetched. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> ] Anyway I probably shouldn't have mentioned that one. I just wanted to try it because it was a good challenge-level for past challenges.

I seem to vaguely recall that some Reovolution level features objects that aren't triggered by any lemmings actions, and yet can destroy terrain on their own.  Strictly speaking the level isn't undamaged then, but perhaps it would be of interest to note solutions where no damages are done by the lemmings (but absolutely unavoidable damage from level objects okay)?

If you're talking about the shredder for instance (shredder/saw idk). Yes it can destroy regular terrain and I agree. The shredder destroying terrain isn't the player controlling a lemming so...

[ccexplore]

Anyway I probably shouldn't have mentioned that one. I just wanted to try it because it was a good challenge-level for past challenges.

That's okay.  Actually, it would be logical to later spin-off a related challenge along the lines of "least damage needed to solve level/achieve max %".  The only issue is how to measure damage.  Logically it should be the exact number of terrain pixels, but currently it is infeasible to measure, and even if it is feasible, it'll likely just make the challenges devolve to a point of uninteresting (and pixel-precise) fine-tuning.

Measuring simply by number of skills spent that did damage (even if just a single pixel) is much more feasible and likely the way such a challenge would be measured.  Fundamentally it is of a very different nature from number of pixels, for example:

  |          |          |
  |          |          |
  |          |          |
=============

Suppose you can get through an obstacle like this either by 3 bashers bashing through each thin vertical wall, or by digging down into the floor and then just bash across.  The former clearly damages fewer pixels, while the latter uses up less skills.

Undamaged-level challenge basically requires both number of damaging skills, as well as number of damaged pixels, to be both zero.  So I guess it is equally valid to spin-off on number of skills as on number of damaged pixels, even if the latter feels more natural to me.

[edit: perhaps as a rough compromise, each stroke (counting partial ones equally as completed ones) of a basher, miner or digger should be counted individually?  Avoids the spectacle of favoring long continuous tunnels.  But then again, not sure anyone wants to look at minimizing dig strokes any more than pixels in "Just Dig". http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />]

[Proxima]

Definitely not the level I have in mind.  However I haven't bothered to check Frost 11 results from all challenge threads, so if you think there actually are any results from other challenges that your solution is an improvement on, feel free to alert us!

Thanks for reminding me to check  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> I need to change the move order, but my solution leads to a one-skill-per-lemming solution, which hasn't been found for this level before.

[ccexplore]

Cool. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />

Speaking of checking old stuff, the http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=181.msg11627#msg11627" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">builders+bashers solution for Blitz 2 works here as well.  Result added.

[mobius]

I apologize for writing solutions to levels when I forgot you haven't played them yet.
[that's the second time I did that  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/angry.gif" alt=">" title="Angry" class="smiley" />]

8-7 'Watch out Evil About' - 46/50 - bomber-reset *screenshot attached
[I keep running into the problem of high falls in this game]

-it's basically like the normal way [not the left backroute] except;

-first I blocked the lemmings then made a worker a blocker and freed him to wait for the weasels to go by.
-Make him a bomber and reset to survive the fall to the bottom.
-build over the teleporter and continue building up toward the area with steel and the retractable platform. When he turns around wait for him to come down, pass the time door and build once to make a safe height for the others.
When he comes back; zig zag up the steel beams then build to the retractable platform so he turns around then build to the switch.
- I had exactly 1 builder left at this point. To free the rest of the lemmings build over the blocker; Not all of them made it through the time door. I could never get the glitch to work where you pack them real tight and sneak by the time door.

9-6 'the high dive' 100% once again thanks to the reset-bomber glitch. *screenshot

You can build over the huge mountain over the laser gate. Simply block the lemmings in the area under the top pool and reset a worker to survive the (2) falls. Then build. Once again I had exactly enough builders.

---------
In the record post you have 2-2 instead it should be 5-2.
Also why is it  'DOS Revolution?'  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />

[mobius]

EDIT: I realize that now I'm getting carried away but it seems like nobody else is interested in Revolution at the time being. If anybody else wants a chance just let me know.

9-8 'Feeling Gravity's Pull' is possible even though it doesn't look it because of an in-level glitch. 50/65 Glitches required.

At the middle entrance you can dig through the thin platform at the very edge near the wall without actually destroying the terrain. It looks intact but Lemmings will fall through. Idk if you want to consider this okay or not.
Since you only need to save those lemmings (from the middle entrance, you can completely ignore the other two). You can build to get a total of four lemmings (two on each side) at the switches on the outside part.

9-10 'Waste-not want not part 1' 100% and absolutely no glitches!
(This level actually has many solutions, despite being quite difficult at first)

-I like to set RR around 80
-make first lem athlete. Let him climb over the wall and flip switch and walk all the way to the end of the platform then build to the small steel block.
-As the other lemmings begin to follow him, after they all fall onto the platform he's currently on, make the last one bash air twice to slow him down.
-the first lem (that built) will come back and flip the switch while the one you just stalled should flip it back. So: the first can climb back up to the area where the entrance is. The rest of the lemmings will turn around and flip the switch again and you can ignore them; actually that's it—watch the rest happen and it's solved!

-making the RR 99 might allow u to use less bashers.

9-11 'Ouch Me Head' 100% no glitches.
[it's pretty simple. Just stalling]

10-2 'Legend of Smelly Belly '100% no glitches
[not much explanation needed here either]

What I usually do is dig a hole near the entrance area to trap them and climb to get worker out. Instead I just build to the area between that and the lowest weasel trap and that traps the lemmings that come out of the time door. I had a worker build over that and up to the other stuff and had another dig through that stair to keep him alone.

[ccexplore]

I apologize for writing solutions to levels when I forgot you haven't played them yet.

No worries.  Actually, I hadn't read any of your solutions earlier in the week, I just copied your results to the first post.

Also why is it  'DOS Revolution?'  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />

Ha!  Good catch, I forgot that one game doesn't use DOS anymore.  Changed to "PC" now.

Anyway, I have took a first pass at the Revolution levels up to 7-x.  I've added the obvious levels (eg. "just climb") to the list now, as well as various improvements here and there.

[mobius]

Could you post a brief explanation or screen cap of some of your solutions? Particularly 6-3 and 9-10?  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" />

10-5 "Scale that Wall" 48/50 [not much change in the normal solution]

10-6 "Going in all Directions" 100% glitches 48/50 without.

There are two separate ways; 1 is to build over the top. The other is to build up from the bottom and "build through" the thin platform [using the same glitch present in earlier lemmings games].   I can't remember this exactly but; You have just enough builders I think to build up from the bottom and get the lemmings out by building over the blocker [for a glitch free solution]. OR you can go for 100% and go over the top and free the blocker with a builder. (I might have that reversed).

10-8 "Time is of the Essence" 100% with glitch.
[There are numerous ways for this one.]
10-10 "Reduce and Simmer" 100% no glitches

set RR to 1 then have first lemming build 2 or 3 steps then block. Wait for the weasel to go by then have one build over the blocker and build to the balloon. Once he's done bash the steps to free the blocker.
I've tried saving 100% no glitches and keeping the RR at 99 but to no avail yet.

[ccexplore]

Could you post a brief explanation or screen cap of some of your solutions? Particularly 6-3 and 9-10?  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" />

6-3 is pretty easy when you realize there's a shortcut.  See zipped screenshot and details below.

As the screenshot shows, you can build up to get up that steel, and another climber doing some more building completes the path over the 2nd steel wall, for a short way around.

In order to not lose any more lemmings besides the blocker, set RR to 1, and let the 5th lemming out floater, 6th lemming out the climber, and 7th lemming out air-bash to delay himself.  This ensures no lemming will die of fatal fall while the long bridge is still in progress.

As for 9-10, you http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=654.msg14398#msg14398" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">reported that one. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

[Clam]

Frost 3 improved to 100%.

[ccexplore]

Blizzard 1 undamaged 100%, using a glitch w/ the blocker.  Rather tricky, using up all skills and most of the time limit.

[ccexplore]

Wild 3 improved to 100%.

[ccexplore]

Back to Revolution, I've completed all of 8-x except for 8-10 [edit: 8-10 also completed], and got the following results/improvements.  Screenshots attached.

8-2 100% (glitch): see the solution I posted http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=526.msg12427#msg12427" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">here a while back.

8-7 improved to 100% (still glitch): by refining on http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=654.msg14396#msg14396" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">mobius's solution, as follows:

- For the trailblazer, instead of blocking and then bomber-reset (using up a bomber in the process that we need elsewhere), just air-bash 9 times to delay himself sufficiently to fall behind the baddies.  When using bomber-reset for surviving the fall, use a miner as the reset skill.

- For the rest of the crowd, set RR to 15, and set the 2nd lemming a blocker soon after it lands from the entrance (just not so soon that the following lemmings land on his head).  You may have to periodically tweak the RR between 14 and 15, but otherwise the crowd should be fairly compressed as a result.  Once the trailblazer finishes its job, free the blocker via bomber-reset (bash to reset), assigning bomber when the crowd is just turning around from the left wall.  If done right, the freed blocker will merge right into the compressed crowd after completing the air-bashing, and all 49 of them can get through the timed door.

- Because you don't need to build over the crowd-holding blocker, you can use this builder instead to get the trailblazer back to the exit, after he reaches the lever for the exit-path retractable floors.

8-8 100% using the http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=585.msg14420#msg14420" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">"can't see me dig" glitch plus other ones:

After "invisibly digging" along that edge between steel and normal terrain (using up 4 diggers), let one lemming go and block the rest.  The trailblazer will air-bash 2-3 times to get past the anti-grav that would've put him rightside-up.  Then when he turns right, immediately build once.  Wait for him to get back to the anti-grav, this time let him activate it.  The bridge he builds earlier while upside-down, will serve to turn him (and later the crowd) to face right before he falls down to the platform below.

Then as shown in screenshots, build a few steps then bash to stop building, to avoid activating the lever on the steel platform below.  Then build again from the very edge of the steel platform.  It will look like the bridge is just short of getting past the water, but it will turn out that the little remaining bit of water can be walked safely.  Now free the blocker (and release the crowd) with bomber-reset.

8-9 (glitch):

Assign 1st acid lemming climber.  2nd acid lemming block at the top of the terrain staircase before the acid pool.  3rd acid lemming, after turning around from the blocker, blocks right where the non-acid lemmings would land.  This lets the non-acid lemmings land on his head, which manages to shorten the fall enough to make it safe.

Once at least 1 non-acid lemming has gotten down safely, have him block, then free via bomber-reset the 2nd acid lemming who's blocking on the top step of the terrain staircase.  He will end up in the acid pool eventually activating the lever at the bottom.  The 1st acid lemming who's climber, have him build over the pit to turn around and activate the lever that drains the acid.

Finally, once all the non-acid lemmings have gotten down, free the other acid-lemming blocker via bomber-reset, to release him and the crowd to the exit.

[mobius]

11-1 Which Switch is Which? 100% reset glitch - 49/50 no glitch

11-2 When Two Tribes go to war. 100% reset glitch (screenshot attached)
EDIT: Just occured to me there may be a glitch free solution using the builders I have left.
Let me do it! Let me do it!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />


I feel I should mention that a lot of the 100% solutions I've been reporting with glitches (particularly the reset bomber glitch) while most of those levels are possible within their regular save % range without glitches. Idk how you're doing it in the other games but I suppose if you wanted to stress the idea of the challenge; glitch free then we should come up with some way of indicating these levels are still possible "undamaged" non-glitch. Maybe just make another indicator mark for that or something.
[versus: 'x level' being totally impossible; undamaged, without the need of a glitch. 9-6 for instance]

As for 9-10, you http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=654.msg14398#msg14398" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">reported that one. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

 http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" /> I got the levels mixed up and thought you meant 9-9.

Also, good work on 'Take her up to warp speed'. I Didn't think to try the glitch repeatedly on thicker ground!