It took 12 years, but I did it!!!

[Mike]

The Level "All or Nothing" (found here: http://eng-forum.lemmingswelt.de/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=news;action=display;num=1090216677;start=120) requires 3 bashers. Dave didnt want it to be pure luck that you could solve it.

When the Lemmings fall in to each trap, you put the cursor on the opposite side. When it flashes you can click. The lemming starts his skill but turns around first.

You can do this 100% of the time, but its a programming glitch, and was pure luck it turned out that way.

[Proxima]

errr... you can ask... I might not remember though. those levels were Gary's too, so I cant remember the original solution.

Pity.

In that case I'll mention some of the others I wondered about -- were any of these yours, and if so, what solution was intended?

I have a cunning plan; Lend a helping hand; Perseverance; Izzy Wizzy Lemmings Get Busy; Tribute to M C Escher (and why that title?); Triple Trouble; It's hero time; One way or the other; Time to get up; Have a nice day.

Sorry to press you like this... it's just that these are things that have intrigued me for twelve years!!!

And another question: who did Rendezvous at the Mountain? There's nothing I particularly want to say about the level, but that title... I'm a writer, you see; ever since early childhood I've invented stories and worlds; but the evocative power of those four words has opened up a completely new direction for me, and the series I'm writing, which is going to be massive, might not have existed without them. So I'd really like to know........

[guest]

Actually yes. The great thing with Lemmings is the "open" nature of the game. There usually more than one solution. We all spent many hours playing it and getting all the tricks that you guys used long before the game was out.

Yes, but I think Ahbriar is interested (obsessed?) in knowing which solution(s) the level designer had in mind when the level was being designed.  Not all levels were like this of course; some are obviously intentional to have multiple solutions (such as those with multiple exits for example).

[Mike]

have a cunning plan; Lend a helping hand; Perseverance; Izzy Wizzy Lemmings Get Busy; Tribute to M C Escher (and why that title?); Triple Trouble; It's hero time; One way or the other; Time to get up; Have a nice day.

Most of these are Gary's. "Its hero time" is mine.

The idea was to send a lemming over the top - as it were - to set everything up, while the rest bounced off the wall and chased after you the long way. This one stumped Psygnosis for over an hour.  The reson for the bomber was to fool you into thinking youd use a blocker, only for you to remember later that you needed 100%

From what I remember Scott did the last one, and the name "Rendezvous at the Mountain" came from the fact that there were 2 starting points that met in the middle; the "Rendezvous".

[Proxima]

Most of these are Gary's. "Its hero time" is mine.

The idea was to send a lemming over the top - as it were - to set everything up, while the rest bounced off the wall and chased after you the long way. This one stumped Psygnosis for over an hour.  The reson for the bomber was to fool you into thinking youd use a blocker, only for you to remember later that you needed 100%

I get that, but...... let's make it clearer. I'll describe the two solutions I know.

(1) The FIRST lemming digs the first platform so one goes ahead (who becomes climber and floater). Then, the SECOND lemming of the crowd bashes at the sloping wall, while one goes over it to build and stop the crowd from hitting the water.

(2) The LAST lemming digs the first platform, bashes the one-way wall and builds to turn round and not hit the water, while any one of the crowd becomes a climber and floater.

(3) I've heard that the level can be done somehow without using the climber or the floater. I don't know the details of this solution.

Which solution did you intend, or is it deliberate that more than one solution is possible?

[guest]

(3) I've heard that the level can be done somehow without using the climber or the floater. I don't know the details of this solution.

Well clearly this one is not intended, since you won't be sending anyone over the top as Mike stated, as that is no longer possible without a climber.

Also it might not work on all versions of Lemmings.  It specifically requires that if you let the first Lemming mine, a single stroke of mining is enough to break through the thin floor at the top.  (There's a more straightforward way which does not require this, but that wouldn't work as you will run out of time.)  That is true on the DOS version, but I already know it is not in the SNES version, and so it might well be not possible in other versions as well.

[guest]

Also it might not work on all versions of Lemmings. &#A0;It specifically requires that if you let the first Lemming mine, a single stroke of mining is enough to break through the thin floor at the top. &#A0;(There's a more straightforward way which does not require this, but that wouldn't work as you will run out of time.)

Actually I take this back, you might not need the miner to cooperate as stated.  It might still be possible to use the more "straightforward" concept I referred to.  I'll have to work out the timing and see.

[guest]

Ok, nope.  You do need the miner to cooperate as stated in order to make it in time in the climberless solution, even in DOS.

[guest]

I checked, and nope, you do need the miner to cooperate for a climberless solution, even in DOS.

[Proxima]

OK, but what is this solution? And what's the more straightforward solution that would work with more time?

[guest]

Ok, I'll e-mail you with the details.

As for the "straightforward" climberless solution, here's a hint:  _{[size=10]it's not much different from solution #2 you described[/size]}

[guest]

Ok, I'll e-mail you with the details.

btw, I just remembered that for some people, the e-mail address I used to e-mail you can't get past Yahoo spam blockers.  (Not that I'm a spammer, but you know how spammers like to fake the "from" address?  seems that was enough to fool Yahoo's spam blockers in the case of my e-mail address).  So since you use Yahoo e-mail, if you haven't received anything yet, you might want to check your "bulk" folder.

[guest]

Turns out I'm making things way too complicated for myself as usual.  There's a very easy way to solve this level without climbers & floater.  As long as you can get Ahbriar's solution #2 to work, you are pretty much guaranteed to be able to solve it without climbers, regardless of what version of the game you have (well except for the SNES, but its timing is different enough that even Ahbriar's soln #2 runs out of time).

[Mike]

The detailed solution....

1st dig so they drop out before the slop. On the second lemming, set to bash. The first lemming heads over the top. He then builds to stop falling in the water.

Set him to be a climber and a floater.

Now, I cant remember the number of skills here so, its either stop the basher with a builder so they all turn round... or let them bash through so they hit the wall a nd turn round - but I think you run out of  time that way.

Anyway... after he climbs over and drops down, dig/mine to the exit.

Its pretty much as 99% of people would solve it. BUT as has been said... you can probably do it without a climber - depending on free skills. Thats what nice about  Lemmings

[Proxima]

Ouch!!!

After guest and myself have between us identified no fewer than eight solutions, along you come and say that the intended solution is different again!!!

As you describe it, it doesn't quite work, because the first few of the mass of lemmings reach the last platform before the climber/floater (at least on the Mac). But this works:

Lemming 1 digs/mines the first platform and bashes the sloping wall, letting one go ahead. That one builds -- as in your solution. Because building is slower than walking, some lemmings reach him while he's still building. The first of them becomes a climber/floater and digs/mines to the exit.

You don't have a second builder to stop the bashing (you only get 1 of each), and anyway you need the lemmings to bash right through the wall so that one of them can climb/float. But on the Mac, this is still OK for time -- you finish with six seconds left.

We should have a poll, to see whether 99% of people really did do it like that....... personally I think my two solutions are much more obvious.