It took 12 years, but I did it!!!

[Proxima]

I completed Lemmings this morning.

You might find it surprising that I, clearly no novice either at creating Lemmings puzzles or at
solving them, should take so long. The reason is simple: someone out there doesn't know his percentages.


This is 26 Mayhem, The Steel Mines of Kessel, PC version. You have ten bombers, ten blockers,
ten builders, and have to save 90% of 100 lemmings, which is of course 90.

On the Mac, possibly because the old machines the game was first designed on got too slow keeping
track of 100 lemmings, all levels that have 100 on other versions have only 80. And the designers forgot
that 90% of 80 is not all but ten, but all but EIGHT.

It would still be doable, but there are also three places down the right-hand slope (between the last wall
and the trap) where the lemmings can't walk past the thorns. Do you build past them? But nine builders
are needed elsewhere, and the three impassable thorns are too far apart to get past two with one
bridge, let alone all three. Or do you block and blow? But you need to use two fewer blockers and
bombers than the PC solution, not two more.

I looked through my diaries last night. It was in 1994 that I reached this level. In late 1996 (I was nearly
14) that I gave up on this and used codes to satisfy my curiosity about what the later levels contained. I
must have started designing my own levels soon after, because they were complete by late 1997. After that
I lost interest in the original levels, and when my designed levels were complete and I'd shown them
to everyone and there was nothing more to do, and God knows I never expected to come back to
Lemmings after that, at some point I lost the green book with the codes that let you get into the program.

But that level continued to haunt me, and eventually I thought I might have solved it. Finally, I discovered
this forum, and finlay gave me a code that would bypass the copy protection scheme. Eagerly, I loaded
up The Steel Mines, only to discover that the passage of ten years had not made it any easier. My solution
was sufficient... to save all but nine.

That was a bit of a shaggy dog story, so I'll cut the rest short. Anyone who wants to try to find the solution
to the Mac version of this level for himself should skip the next bit.

You need to time the first two bombers: the first just above the "elbow" of the large thorn just before
the apex of the hill, the second just as he falls down the first one's hole. You can use blockers to steady them
at the right places -- this is vital with the second, which must be pixel perfect to blast that wall with just
one bomb -- but both MUST blow before the next lemming reaches them. (This is to save having
to block against the water to the left.)

Make the fourth lemming a blocker just before the edge of the hole. The third goes down and builds across
the water. When four lemmings have collected on the far side of the hill before the blocker, make
another blocker to split them off from the crowd.

The builder must block and blow through the next wall -- again pixel perfect so you don't need a builder to
climb out of his hole. Release the four lemmings, and make the back one a blocker just after they fall
off the bridge.

Where there are two little stubs of thorns just below the right overhanging ledge, build up to the right
from the first one. You must use only three builders, but you will reach a little nook just beyond the green
hangy-down things. Block and blow through the wall -- precision is needed again! Because the ground on
the other side is higher than where the lemmings are, you'll definitely need a builder as well to reach it.

Build past the three impassable thorns and use your LAST builder to get over the trap. Blow up the
last blocker, and you're free!!!

- - -

After that, the last four levels didn't take too long. Although I was a bit shocked on Save Me, after
hoarding my builders like a miser, to find myself reaching the end short of one blocker, of all
things. Still, I did it in the end... and Rendezvous at the Mountain, and that was that.........

"So the great affair is over, but whoever would have guessed
That it would leave us all so vacant and so deeply unimpressed?
It's like our visit to the moon, or to that other star:
I guess you go for nothing if you really want to go so far."
-- Leonard (or Lemmard &#A0;B)) Cohen

[Andi]

Hehe Congrats! Nice to see you here. But the PC version only has 80 lems at maximum. So 10 percent would be 12,5. Hm. One lemming you only have to rescue halway. But maybe I'm completely wrong. Anyway, erm, yeah. Welcome!

Ah, and for some reason I like the name... "The Steel Mines of Kessel"....

Hm... I found a Kessel in Germany. But it seems like it's only about 7 houses or so on the map. So I don't think it's the one meant.

The other ones I found are also only 10 houses or so. 1st option: Something's wrong with the map. 2nd option: The names are messed up. 3rd Option: I can't read maps. 4th option: I see not existing things. 5th option: The Kessel which is meant is not on the map.

edit:// I found another option! 6th option: The level designer was smoking whatever and "The Steel Mines of Kessel" has never existed. (But maybe in the future somehwere on the moon or mars? Who knows?)

[Proxima]

Heh, I think the reference is to Star Wars........

Anyway, I don't know the versions other than Mac, but the site that pic came from,
http://home.wanadoo.nl/lemmings-solution/lemmings
whichever version that's from, you have to save 90% of 100 lemmings.

[guest]

Anyway, I don't know the versions other than Mac, but the site that pic came from,
http://home.wanadoo.nl/lemmings-solution/lemmings
whichever version that's from, you have to save 90% of 100 lemmings.

I know the SNES version uses 100 lemmings instead of 80, and I think the original Amiga version (both Lemmings 1 and Lemmings 2 I think was originally released on the Amiga and then ported to everything else) also uses 100.

-------------------

It's interesting how subtly different the various versions can be.  The thorn problem you have on the Mac version AFAIK doesn't exist in the PC version.  I know the SNES version has some speed differences that makes Just a Minute part II nearly impossible to solve (the typical solution that works for the PC will probably be at least 3 or 4 seconds too slow for the SNES, believe it or not).  And so on.

Incidentally, I believe one of the best solutions (in terms of % saved) someone has worked out for the Mac version involves bombing thru the think barrier with the "backbone" graphics.  (It can be done with 5 or 6 exploders I think.)

[Proxima]

Incidentally, I believe one of the best solutions (in terms of % saved) someone has worked out for the Mac version involves bombing thru the think barrier with the "backbone" graphics. &#A0;(It can be done with 5 or 6 exploders I think.)

Hell, no.

I was stuck on this level for ten years, remember? I tried EVERYTHING.

Going through that backbone takes seven bombers. If it could be done with six, which I admit might be possible with EXTREME precision, much harder than anything in my solution, you'd save the same percentage as my solution -- no more. (You have to lose one to blast the next wall and one to keep the crowd back.) Five is definitely out of the question.

In fact, I find it hard to believe that there is another solution at all.... I really have thought of every possible route.........

Addendum: I sent my solution off to the writer of the guide on GameFAQs -- he couldn't solve this level either -- but his e-mail address no longer exists.

[guest]

Don't quote me, the info was from http://www.kallex.de/lemmings/hints/imperfect-levels.

If you Google for "Ephraim Vishniac", I believe you should be able to find a complete walkthrough (unlike the link above) this person wrote, and somewhere in there he has stated that he played the Mac version of the game.

I certainly didn't say bombing thru the thick barrier is the easiest way to do it, it's just interesting because most people wouldn't even contemplate doing it this way due to the difficulty as you described.

[Proxima]

Sorry (and thanks for the link!)

However, what the walkthrough actually says is that you CAN break the barrier with six bombers, which, as I said, saves 72  of 80, the same as my solution (and the exact number required).

As for the cryptic comment at the end of the other page: "using the many BUILDs as delays, five of a 6-Lem team sacrificed themselves to save the remaining 75. This is the Low-Road solution"... well, seeing is believing. You don't have many builders; you have ten. All ten are needed on the Low Road on the Mac because of the thorns; this solution may be from another version. Ephraim's walkthrough is for the Mac, but he doesn't say that this solution is, and the page it's on is separate from his site. (I've heard that some versions actually allow 20 builders on this level, which would make this solution plausible.)

[Shvegait]

The original DOS version gives 20 bombers, 20 blockers, 20 builders, and you only have to save 75% (out of 80), making this level quite easy for that version.

While we're on this topic, I beat the game a couple weeks ago, after playing through all the puzzles in about a week and a half. When I was a kid I didn't think it was possible, I remember getting stuck on Taxing 3 and claiming it was impossible. When I tried it recently I beat it on maybe my 2nd or 3rd try. I got stuck on "Save Me" for a little while, but I realized the solution while walking to calc class to take a quiz... strange how things work out

[guest]

The original DOS version gives 20 bombers, 20 blockers, 20 builders, and you only have to save 75% (out of 80), making this level quite easy for that version.

Are you sure?  My copy of the DOS version (admittedly from less than reputable sources) is still 10-10-10, although the 75% might be correct, I don't really remember (and am on a different computer now so I can't check).  Anyone else care to confirm?

[chaos_defrost]

I distinctly remember that on the DOS version, Mayhem 26 was 20/20/20. It had a quite a bit of easying up done to it, for example, "Come on over to my place" [sic?] Was only save 80%, not 100% (Although, 100% isn't very hard, either.) -- there are a couple other changes.

[guest]

Doh!  I re-check now that I'm on my home computer, and it is 20-20-20 after all.  Guess I must've confused it with the SNES version or something.  [Dammit, I'm not that old yet!  ]

Interesting how the various versions have all these differences.  Then again I shouldn't be surprised, considering how they mutilated Lemmings 2 the Tribes on the SNES.  (I guess they are, um, targeting a "younger" audience for the SNES port.  )

[Mike]

Interesting how the various versions have all these differences. &#A0;Then again I shouldn't be surprised, considering how they mutilated Lemmings 2 the Tribes on the SNES. &#A0;(I guess they are, um, targeting a "younger" audience for the SNES port. &#A0;)

Hay!! That was my pride and joy that was!!! What was wrong with it?   ::

The SNES one looked so much better than the rest, what with the neat parallax background, falling SNOW on the polar level, AND! if you stuck a superscope in port 2, you can shoot them!!!

Oh, and click on the dot on the screen to get "visual" sound effects...

*sniff*.... I done good on that...  

[G3K]

Agreed - the SNES version is brilliant. Admittedly, I've only played it on an emulator, but still brilliant. Close seconds would have to be the PC, Megadrive and Amiga versions, with the GB port somewhere far, far away in last. Dire music, annoying controls, and not a very good view.

[finlay]

Well done, d&#F8;&#F8;d. Glad I could help you on your quest.
I'm sure I once completed this level, though I have absolutely no idea how; I was quite young and had extensive help from my father. It did cause me grief at the time though.
But certainly, giving this level a save rate of 8 to spare but with 10 bombers is just moronic. Especially since the level format is numbers entered as 80 and 72.

Now, how did you design and make levels back in 1997?

[guest]

Hay!! That was my pride and joy that was!!! What was wrong with it? &#A0; ::

Damn, I better start watching what I say here.   Keep forgetting how many people here were actually involved in the development of the Lemmings series.

It's just that the SNES version's puzzles are considerably dumbed down.  Besides changing skill distributions here and there, they often changed the terrain, sometimes so much so it really "ruined" some of the levels.  Like, in one case they change the terrain so that whereas originally you have to do work to hold back a crowd, now it's like there's a pit there already in place to contain the crowd.

Basically, I felt let down that after comparing my solution based on the SNES version with walkthroughs based on other versions, I have no choice but to scrap my progress on the SNES version and start anew with the real version of the puzzles.

Also, what happened to so many of the traps?  Like for example the Boogieman (red eye) traps in the Cavelem tribe?  It is completely absent in the SNES version!!!  (or at least on the ROM I downloaded anyway)

I do agree the graphics are good, and the SNES version likely has the best sound and music thanks to the SNES choice of audio hardware.  Overall I enjoyed it a lot but I did wish they didn't dumb down the puzzle, but as I said, SNES marketing probably has to target to a younger audience.  That, or they think SNES gamers are less intelligent or something...... O_o