Version Differences

[ccexplore]

According to most sources I'm seeing; using two mice isn't possible on Amiga. [Sources being; here and a few unreliable short game description sites]

 http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" /> I think you mean Atari ST not Amiga above.  I'm pretty sure even Wikipedia has the info sourced directly from Mike Dailly that they took advantage of Amiga's 2-mice support for 2-player mode, while on DOS Lemmings the support does not exist and so there's no 2-player mode there.

[mobius]

According to most sources I'm seeing; using two mice isn't possible on Amiga. [Sources being; here and a few unreliable short game description sites]

 http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" /> I think you mean Atari ST not Amiga above.  I'm pretty sure even Wikipedia has the info sourced directly from Mike Dailly that they took advantage of Amiga's 2-mice support for 2-player mode, while on DOS Lemmings the support does not exist and so there's no 2-player mode there.

oh yeah I meant Atari ST.

According to most sources they say Amiga is the only or one of the few consoles that supported two mice. [not two players]. On the ST you had to use a joystick? according to finlay.
The first post should say all that now.
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I just tried using two mice with my computer now, to my surprise it worked; of course they both control one cursor.
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the thread is getting pretty big, thanks for contributing everybody. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />
Other sites I've seen like Lemmings encyclopedia has a table which sounds nice at first, but a lot of these differences aren't things easily displayed in a table.

[ccexplore]

I just tried using two mice with my computer now, to my surprise it worked; of course they both control one cursor.

Keep in mind we're talking about DOS Lemmings, not Windows 7 Lemmings. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />  Back then USB doesn't even exist.  I would actually wonder if the DOS machines back then even had more than one connector for mice.

[DragonsLover]

When I said there's a large gap at end of songs I meant, there's a gap between when the song ends and starts (loops) instead of looping smoothly. Due to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UIWPtmDHdw&list=UUzbdP4ABmGTgC2FCDz2kWKQ&index=1&feature=plcp" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UIWPtmDHdw&list=UUzbdP4ABmGTgC2FCDz2kWKQ&index=1&feature=plcp

Of course, this is an emulator and for various other reasons it could be wrong so I'm not saying that's right or not. I don't have an Atari ST. It could also be just that song, If memory serves that particular songs does that on every version doesn't it? While every other songs loops seamlessly.

Yes, it is only that song. It's intended in that single song only. All of the other songs are looping perfectly and I can record them using WinJam (ST music player for Windows) for you if you want. You said you don't have a ST. I did got one. It's on this machine I played the game for the very first time.

According to this video below (I'm more inclined to say this is a real Atari ST) lemmings appear to walk slightly faster, and the clock goes down quicker. (I should say) the game speed is slightly faster than DOS. But I'm not sure on that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KaN-6toFU0" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KaN-6toFU0

It's indeed a bit fast. Perhaps the playfrequency of the song is higher (60Hz instead of 50Hz). I can reproduce the same thing into WinJam.

I didn't know DOS had a "cheat" code? How exactly does that work? Unless you just mean the level select code?

Simple. Instead of entering a level code, type in "BILLANDTED" and validates. You can either get a "Incorrect Code" or "Cheat mode activated" message depending on the lemmings version you're playing, but it should work anyway. During a level, press 5 on the keypad at the right of the keyboard and you will instantly win the level with 100% lemmings saved. If it doesn't work, then the game doesn't have the cheat mode.
There's also "VERSIONNUM" that gives the version number of the game and also works under some Oh no! More Lemmings, Holiday Lemmings and Customized Lemmings versions.
Under Oh no! More Lemmings, the cheat code is "SLAMRACING". Doesn't work with all versions (I tried on mine and it doesn't).
Under some Holiday Lemmings versions (91 and 92 especially), the cheat code is "SNOWFLAKES".
Under Customized Lemmings, the cheat code is "SKIPLEVELS" and is provided in the LemEdit manual if I remember right.

[Luis]

I know DOS and Mac does, and maybe Windows.  Amiga, SNES and Genesis does not.  Don't remember the rest, although I'd guess that most don't support RR changes while paused.

The PSP lets you change the RR and skills while paused.

PSP
-scenic background on every level
-graphics very different. Much higher resolution/better looking and more detailed. Below is a list of a more proper name for them:
pillar - egyptian
marble - roman
crystal - chemical plant? (open to suggestion)
dirt - dirt
hellfire - hellfire
-removes some levels while adding some new ones
-lemmings walk slower
-many levels have more time to compensate for ^
-new voices for lemmings and new phrases. (e.g. lemmings say something every time I skill is assigned)

1. Dirt is Earth
2. Hellfire is only called Hell.
3. Only those Sunsoft levels are missing, but I can just build them in the editor.
4. Giving more time on the majority of levels, just because the Lemmings walk slower was pointless. Almost all the levels can still be beaten under the original Amiga's level times. "Just A Minute" is too easy now because it has two minutes.
5. Actually the Lemmings don't say anything when you give them a skill. All you hear is some sort of equip sound.

These are the ones that I would add to the PSP list:

1.Builders makes longer stairs.
2.You can assign a skill to a Lemming while the game is paused. When you unpause the game, the Lemmings will have the skill.
3.Miners cover more terrains.
4.Some levels have terrains with small pixels that helps Lemmings survive falls, where they are suppose to die, making the level easier.
5.Special levels such as "A Beast of a Level", What an AWESOME Level" now uses the Dirt theme. "MENACING !!" and A Beast 2 of a Level use the Hell theme.
6.The face in "Hunt the Nessy" now has an angry expression.
7.A lot of outside terrains were removed in order for the level to fit within the side limit of the background. This is why Mayhem 30 is missing the two big terrains with the bridge between them, because the level is too long.
8. The one-way arrow in Mayhem 30 is missing and so is the terrain that was on top of the two trees.
9. Walk the web rope and What an AWESOME level doesn't have stars and those pointy things on those monsters.
10.Curved Pillars are not in this version.
11.The green terrain in Tricky 4 and Taxing 7 near the edge of the steel terrain is removed. The orange terrain is now moved to the left, so the Lemmings can land on it.
12.The gray part of the flamethrower doesn't harm you and you can go through it. This makes "Feel the heat!" easier.
13.You can beat Mayhem 7 by just using dig and bash through all the poles.
14.Mayhem 3 has the wrong RR. It starts at 50 and Mayhem 24 starts at 10.
15. The third exit in Taxing 17 is not there, because the level will be too long for the background.
16. Tightrope City has terrains below the horizontal terrain, which makes it ok to use the bomber.
17.Lemmings can walk on the ceiling.
18.Fun 25 has 100 Lemmings while Mayhem 4 has 50.
19. Trick 19 has a grass terrain on the pillar that blocks the climber from climbing the entire pillar, making it unnecessary to use floater.
20.Mayhem 21 has 20 Lemmings.

That's it for now.

[namida]

Under Customized Lemmings, the cheat code is "SKIPLEVELS" and is provided in the LemEdit manual if I remember right.

Not sure if it was the LemEdit manual, but it was definitely mentioned somewhere between LemEdit's manual, CustLemm's readme and the VTM website. I knew about it back in the days before I was aware of any online Lemmings content outside of Kallex.de and VTM's site.

Also, for Lemmix:
All EricLang's or ccexplore's versions: CHEATCODES (same for Revenge of the Lemmings too)
Lemmings Plus DOS Project: NIGERFAGOT
Lemmings Plus II: NGGYUNGLYD

Note that with Lemmix (except LPII) you don't need to enter the code to press 5 to skip levels, and also, you push it on the normal numbers rather than the keypad. You only have to enter it in LPII, or if you want to use the level select.

[namida]

Super Nintendo
[according to Lemmings Encyclopedia the NES version came out AFTER the Super Nintendo version http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />]
-max # Lemmings 80
-Level arrangement same as Genesis
-game play is slightly faster (similar to Genesis)
-new glitches present (possible weird builder/digger/blocker behavior)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNWt2IB8MsY" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNWt2IB8MsY

I've recently been having a look at this version. At least on the ROM I've got, the maximum number of lemmings is 100, and it has the same levels as the PC version, not the Genesis one. I also haven't noticed any weird glitches, although the selection priority does appear to work a bit differently from the PC. The digger appears to work the same way as the PC version too, though it might just be I'm not pulling the trick off correctly.

The clock also seems to be faster relative to the lemmings - my usual solution to Mayhem 3 falls short by about 5 seconds, on PC it has about that much to spare.

[ccexplore]

I've recently been having a look at this version. At least on the ROM I've got, the maximum number of lemmings is 100, and it has the same levels as the PC version, not the Genesis one. I also haven't noticed any weird glitches, although the selection priority does appear to work a bit differently from the PC. The digger appears to work the same way as the PC version too, though it might just be I'm not pulling the trick off correctly.

The clock also seems to be faster relative to the lemmings - my usual solution to Mayhem 3 falls short by about 5 seconds, on PC it has about that much to spare.

Yeah, I think there were some typos/incorrectly relayed information when Mobius first typed that up.  I noticed he made edits today to the original post to correct.

"All the 6s" is replaced by "Ohayo Lemmings San", and there are 5 extra levels past the Mayhem rating, all 5 of which I think are also found in Genesis' SunSoft rating as well, IIRC.  It would be more accurate to say same levels as Amiga version rather than PC, as the PC version has known differences in level stats, like 20 instead of 10 of skills in Mayhem 26, more lenient save/time requirements on a few levels like The Fast Food Kitchen, etc.  (Oh right, and the many instances of removal of water/acid/lava.)

The digger should not be working like the PC version--the "2-3 diggers to save everyone" trick should work on SNES, maybe you aren't doing it right.  If I have time I'll try to see if I can create a movie off an emulator (maybe I already have one for all I know).  There are also one or two miscellaneous game-mechanics differences, none of which I'd necessarily say is a "glitch" but differences nonetheless (and you know how even changing one pixel can make a huge difference in outcome sometimes, especially in challenges).  One fairly noticeable one for example is how the miner moves and as a result, how the staircase of the slope is slightly different than normal.  This is AFAIK unique and not present in other versions including Amiga.  But otherwise yes, there are a pretty large family of known glitches that should work identically across SNES, Amiga, PC and Genesis (and likely Mac).  [quick edit: probably Atari ST too, but I never have a chance to try that version out myself.  And I expect many other ports that aren't too new or radically different from the original ports to share similar glitches.]

The clock difference is also well known, and actually in this case, I think the SNES clock runs at the same rate as Amiga and Genesis, which I think is 16 frames per game second (or maybe 15, I don't remember for sure).  PC (DOS) Lemmings is 17 frames per game second.

================

I'm not aware of differences with selection priority but it's possible there were some things I just never tested thoroughly.  What specifically is the difference you see?

[ccexplore]

I just realize there is a youtube link for the "unique SNES glitch" in mobius' original post.

Yep, the self-turning blocker.  I think that one actually is also present on the Amiga version as well, please check and let me know.  I knew about it a while back (first when I tested out some Mayhem 29 stuff involving digging away the steel edge of one of the blocks above the exit).  It was surprising but to this day I'm still not 100% sure of the exact conditions and effects, and since it is absent on PC version I soon forgotten about it.  Based on that video, it would seem like it is as simple as simply blocking anywhere while standing on thin air.  Not sure whether the exact x/y position of the lemming (modulo 4) or its facing direction may matter or not.  It will take some disassembling of code from those versions to figure out what exactly is happening.

[namida]

Apart from the water at the bottom of levels, the only difference in level design I've noticed from the PC version (on SNES) is the 100% requirement on Mayhem 4. Not that I've played the original game in-depth for quite a long time now. I've only played the first half of Fun and about the first third of Mayhem so far, though.

[Proxima]

The levels where the Amiga and PC versions differ are Fun 15, Taxing 22, Mayhem 4 and 26 (save %), Mayhem 15 (time limit) and Mayhem 26 (number of skills). If the SNES version has 100% on Mayhem 4, I'd guess it follows the Amiga version on all of these?

The SNES version's SUNSOFT rating consists of five levels, all of which are shared with the Genesis version: Two heads are better (SUNSOFT 27), I am A.T. (SUNSOFT 29), Final impediment (Present 30), Private room available (Present 29), Lemmings' Ark (Mayhem 30). The SNES version lacks a steel piece on Two heads are better, allowing a backroute that saves 2/4.

[ccexplore]

The levels where the Amiga and PC versions differ are Fun 15, Taxing 22, Mayhem 4 and 26 (save %), Mayhem 15 (time limit) and Mayhem 26 (number of skills). If the SNES version has 100% on Mayhem 4, I'd guess it follows the Amiga version on all of these?

From what I could remember I would say yes, although I don't remember SNES Fun 15 specifically off top of my head (truth be told, I'm not even aware that level has a difference until you pointed it out).  Also note that the save % is also lower on PC for Mayhem 15 and Mayhem 26 as well.

[DragonsLover]

Yep, the self-turning blocker. I think that one actually is also present on the Amiga version as well, please check and let me know. I knew about it a while back (first when I tested out some Mayhem 29 stuff involving digging away the steel edge of one of the blocks above the exit). It was surprising but to this day I'm still not 100% sure of the exact conditions and effects, and since it is absent on PC version I soon forgotten about it. Based on that video, it would seem like it is as simple as simply blocking anywhere while standing on thin air. Not sure whether the exact x/y position of the lemming (modulo 4) or its facing direction may matter or not. It will take some disassembling of code from those versions to figure out what exactly is happening.

Tested on the Atari ST and it indeed works: the lemming turns around. But on both the ST and Amiga versions, you cannot pause the game using the keyboard (unless I miss something) and it's impossible to assign another skill quickly straight after assigning another one unless you're fast, REEEEAALLY fast.

[ccexplore]

But on both the ST and Amiga versions, you cannot pause the game using the keyboard (unless I miss something)

Hmm, "P" doesn't work on the Amiga for pausing?  I could swear it is possible to pause with keyboard on the Amiga, but to be fair I'm not 100% sure since it has been some time since I last played, and I've played around with enough systems that I could conceivably have things mixed up in my memory.

[DragonsLover]

I just tried and P works for pausing under Amiga, but not under ST. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" /> This is painful for ST players. Strangely, the manual states that it should work on both ST and Amiga, but doesn't. Weird.

And I tried the self-turning blocker trick under Amiga and it works the same: the lemming turns around in mid-air after climbing.

EDIT:

According to most sources they say Amiga is the only or one of the few consoles that supported two mice. [not two players]. On the ST you had to use a joystick?

I checked the Lemmings manual, and the ST doesn't support two mice, it must be with a joystick or the keyboard.