Suggestions for a new Cheapo Copycat game

[Essman]

Right... and that's the same as on the standard games... but what I'm saying is that the standard games also have a way to override this priority

Right-click on a lemming to put an arrow over his head, which gives him the highest priority. Do this on a walker ahead of time and you can follow him around.

[Proxima]

Ah...... now that's cool!

[Shvegait]

Yep, sounds like how they did it in Lemmings 3D. Great feature.

[DragonsLover]

Ahribar, actually in the current Cheapo Copycat game we're using, you can do the feature of right-click on a Lemming to give him the entire priority. Also, you can press the right of left arrow key on your keyboard to decided in which direction you want a skill to be made. For example, you can force a lemming to build to the right in the melee in any position you want.

[Proxima]

Yes, I know about the left-right arrow thing -- and very useful it is too! But there are times when you specifically want to select a walker rather than another lemming, and sometimes (although the example I cited, 5 Havoc, would not be one of them) there just isn't room to select the right lemming to give him the priority. The fact that it is possible to specifically select a walker on the original games is what makes me want to have the same feature in Cheapo, although the left-right and priority features are great things to have as well.

[okmot]

many of the ideas in this thread have already been implemented in CLONES .. but there are many more which i think are great and i plan to incorporate them into future versions of the game.  thanks for the tips!

rt
//www.tomkorp.com

[DragonsLover]

Here are new suggestions:

1. It could be more challenging creating toolboxes inside the levels. I mean, imagine you start the level with only 1 basher. And you must use the basher to pass through a wall. Then the lemming could pick up a toolbox of 8 builders and could now create a bridge... Imagine all the possibilities for levels! You have to go to a place to get tools, then with these tools, you must go to another place for more tools... Just imagine!

2. Have the possibility to make "Lemmings missions"! I talked about that with Steaver and it could be cool to makes lemmings missions. I mean, get a different goal instead of save a number of lemmings. For example, you have to dig holes for hamsters, you have to build a new bridge for cars that want to pass over the water... Just goals like this... you know what I mean?

3. Put a multiplayer feature if able. It's not obligated, but it could be so great!

I guess that's all for now! Maybe more soon!

[Essman]

...imagine you start the level with only 1 basher. And you must use the basher to pass through a wall. Then the lemming could pick up a toolbox of 8 builders and could now create a bridge...

That's like Lemmings Chronicles (All New World Of Lemmings). I'll put this on the wish list and implement it after I finish the first version of the game. I think I like it better if the tool that is picked up (builder, etc.) can be used on any character rather than just the one that picked it up.

2. Have the possibility to make "Lemmings missions"!

Another good idea for the wish list. A basic mission type would be "make a path between two points", and that can be described by the level author using whatever text they like (like "build a bridge for cars").

3. Put a multiplayer feature if able. It's not obligated, but it could be so great!

I'm focusing on customization of the single player game rather than multiplayer.

[guest]

Another good idea for the wish list. A basic mission type would be "make a path between two points", and that can be described by the level author using whatever text they like (like "build a bridge for cars").

It's a good idea, but it sounds like either you'll need someone who can program, or else be stuck with a preset list of missions that Peter included in the program.  And I'm not still entirely sure how this truly adds to the game in a way that couldn't be done what Cheapo currently has.  Can someone give a very concrete example on this idea?

[guest]

It's a good idea, but it sounds like either you'll need someone who can program, or else be stuck with a preset list of missions that Peter included in the program. &#A0;And I'm not still entirely sure how this truly adds to the game in a way that couldn't be done what Cheapo currently has. &#A0;Can someone give a very concrete example on this idea?

Let me clarify what I'm asking.  If I were to program this in its currently vaguely-described form, the first questions I would start asking is:  how does the game check whether you accomplished the "mission"?  And how does the game progress from the starting state to a state that defines "mission accomplished"?

For example, someone mentioned about getting a car across a bridge.  So there would need to be this new "car" object, presumably, that would presumably be moving.  Does it always move on its own, or does a Lemming have to somehow "start" the car?  How does the moving car interact with Lemmings on its path?  How does it interact with other terrain and interactive objects (besides bridges and water, whose interaction with the car is more or less implied by the mission).  Can the player directly influence the car in some way, just like right now the player can directly influence Lemmings by assigning skills to them?  etc.

Similarly with the idea someone mentioned about hamsters.  The hamsters would again be a totally new class of objects.

So a slightly different take on the "mission" idea is, instead of inventing totally new classes of objects and have to deal with the nitty-gritty of defining their behaviors with respect to everything else in the game, perhaps we can use the idea of "colored Lemmings" instead.  The concept being that instead of having one type of Lemmings, a level can now have two or more types of Lemmings, of which only one type can be assigned skills to.  The other Lemming types will walk around and otherwise behave exactly the same as normal Lemmings, just that you can't assign them any skills.  Also, the exits in the level are also "colored" in such a way that a Lemming can only exit through exits of the same color as the Lemming itself.  (And entrances are colored as well.)

Together with the ability to define separate goals for each color of Lemmings (possibly 0% for certain colors, particularly those you can assign skills to), this method will seem to cover the kinds of missions people have mentioned so far, but without the need to program in new objects or to explain the new objects' behavior to the player.  It also builds infrastructure for providing multiplayer support in the future.  It is admittedly a little less snazzy, but if the style customization allows you to use totally different graphics for different "colors" of Lemmings, you can effectively get your second color of Lemmings look like cars or hamsters or whatever you want.

[Essman]

Let me clarify what I'm asking.  If I were to program this in its currently vaguely-described form, the first questions I would start asking is:  how does the game check whether you accomplished the "mission"?  And how does the game progress from the starting state to a state that defines "mission accomplished"?

Here's how I'm going to do it: When you build a level, one of the menu options will be to choose the "goal" that will trigger level completion (same thing for failure). By default I will include one trigger for successfully completing a level: Save a certain number of characters. I will build two failure triggers: Run out of time and kill every character.
In the future I, or someone else, can release plug-ins that give you new triggers (for success or failure). Then when you make a level, you can add a new completion trigger and remove the default triggers. Also, I'll let you remove my default failure triggers, so running out of time doesn't have to trigger failure.
The first version won't ship with missions, but at least it will be possible to add them in the future.

...perhaps we can use the idea of "colored Lemmings" instead.  The concept being that instead of having one type of Lemmings, a level can now have two or more types of Lemmings, of which only one type can be assigned skills to.  The other Lemming types will walk around and otherwise behave exactly the same as normal Lemmings, just that you can't assign them any skills.  Also, the exits in the level are also "colored" in such a way that a Lemming can only exit through exits of the same color as the Lemming itself.  (And entrances are colored as well.)

That's practically how the game will work. One difference is that the second type of "Lemming" will be able to have skills assigned to them, although not the same skills that apply to the normal "Lemmings". Each skill can only be assigned to one type of character. Just like each exit will only allow one type of character to exit, and each window will only release one type of character.

[DragonsLover]

For the toolboxes idea, the tools could be used to any lemmings. It's just when a lemming is touching a toolbox, it adds a amount of tools in the toolbar under the level and assign the new tools to any lemmings on the level, not just the one who take it.

[Proxima]

One more suggestion (actually just a slight peeve).

When shifting the level (or flipping it if that suggestion is incorporated) the location of the initial view window should move with the level. If the shift would move the initial view partly off the level, it should move as far as possible in the named direction.

[Essman]

One more suggestion (actually just a slight peeve).

When shifting the level (or flipping it if that suggestion is incorporated) the location of the initial view window should move with the level.

I noticed that quite a while ago and added everything you just mentioned.

[DragonsLover]

...perhaps we can use the idea of "colored Lemmings" instead.  The concept being that instead of having one type of Lemmings, a level can now have two or more types of Lemmings, of which only one type can be assigned skills to. The other Lemming types will walk around and otherwise behave exactly the same as normal Lemmings, just that you can't assign them any skills.  Also, the exits in the level are also "colored" in such a way that a Lemming can only exit through exits of the same color as the Lemming itself.  (And entrances are colored as well.)

Yeah! I thought about this and it's a good idea! It could be very challenging and could replace lemmings missions I mentionned above.