Suggestions for a new Cheapo Copycat game

[guest]

Thanks for the reply.  Stupid me for not thinking of that.  And happy me for not needing to pursue option #3.

[guest]

This suggestion is actually copied from Clones.

In Clones, they had this type of interactive object that looks like a sort of short tunnel, with one end larger than the other end.  Clones that entered from the small end will emerge enlarged from the large end, and vice versa.

The real point is not so much this object per se but the idea of having a "size" state for Lemmings.  Lemmings can be either normal size as they are now, or be "supersize".  Like Clones, there are some important behavioral differences with size, the most obvious being that when you have supersize lemmings excavate, their actions would take out proportionally more terrain (bigger explosions, taller bash tunnels, etc.) then their regular-size counterparts.

So here's the proposal:

1) introduce a few new interactive object types.  One type would convert a lemming passing over it to supersize, another to normal size, and yet another that switches sizes.

2) have two sizes of exits, a normal size and a supersize exit, to be explained below

3) have two sizes of entrances, a normal size and a supersize entrance, so that it is possible for lemmings to enter into a level starting off supersized

4) Here are the behavioral differences between normal and supersize lemmings:

i) excavation and building are proportionally larger in effect.  Basically, for exacation you would proportionally enlarge the masks used to take out terrain pixels, and for building you would proportionally enlarge the build bricks, with the net effect of a supersized build being longer and higher.

ii) supersized lemmings moves more slowly than normal size lemmings, when walking and climbing

iii) supersized lemmings falls and floats faster than normal size lemmings.  Optionally, supersized lemmings may also have a shorter max-fall distance.

iv) the min-wall height (the minimum height for a lemming to turn around at a wall instead of walking straight up it) for supersized lemmings is proportionally larger.

v) supersized lemmings may only exit the level via supersized exits (they can't fit thru the normal size exits).  However, normal size lemmings may exit via either sizes of exits.

vi) this is optional but a potentially interesting behavior:  supersized blockers only affect supersized lemmings, and normal blockers only affect normal sized lemmings.  The "rationale":  the normal sized lemmings could just walk between the legs of the supersized blockers, while the supersized lemmings could just step over the normal sized lemmings.

That's about it for the differences, I can't think of anything else that should be different between the two.

I don't have a clear idea on what the actual size differences should be between the two.

[Proxima]

You know, heavy objects don't actually fall faster than light ones.....

- - -

I have a suggestion. Why can't teleports be "constant" objects? You wouldn't be able to make an animation for the lemming disappearing, but the teleport itself could be animated -- for instance, a flaming doorway. Or maybe you could program a sort of object with both constant and "activate" animations but the style designer could use just one if he preferred.

[drumnbach]

You're right. If you drop both a helium balloon and your standard Yorkshire Terrier from off the top of the Empire State Building, the helium balloon will actually meet the ground first, on virtue of floating up so high that it circles the earth and lands in the Australian outback.

[drumnbach]

Isn't there the myth about the ant being able to survive a fall from the top of the Empire State Building?

Yep they float down holding tiny umbrellas

[guest]

You know, heavy objects don't actually fall faster than light ones.....

True, but only if there's no signficant air resistance.  Isn't there the myth about the ant being able to survive a fall from the top of the Empire State Building?

Anyhow, I just threw in that idea since it might be useful for gameplay.  I think in Clones everything do fall at the same speed anyway.

[guest]

I have a suggestion. Why can't teleports be "constant" objects? You wouldn't be able to make an animation for the lemming disappearing, but the teleport itself could be animated -- for instance, a flaming doorway.

Since I have a feeling you are actually trying to create such a thing in the existing Cheapo, may I suggest that you can put the animating flames in a separate object?

[Proxima]

Since I have a feeling you are actually trying to create such a thing in the existing Cheapo, may I suggest that you can put the animating flames in a separate object?

Heh, I worked that one out. But it would be more convenient from my point of view as the style designer to know that if my style were to be used by others, they would _have_ to use the two objects together as intended.

[guest]

There's nothing wrong with using them separately in unintended ways.  

I'm sure by looking at your levels, or possibly not even doing that, people can figure out the flames are meant to be used with the teleport.  And if they find a neat way to use the flames or the teleport alone, more power to them.

Still, I guess your suggestion can be a convenience.

[Proxima]

I have a few new suggestions........

(1) Non-rectangular erasers. (Isosceles right triangles and circles are the most useful shapes that spring to mind.) One way to do this would be to have the erasers bitmap on the style file contain three colours -- the background, the eraser colour (which has to be black) and a "foreground" representing pixels that are in the eraser rectangle but not part of the eraser, if that makes sense.

(2) An "opaque mode" -- that is, if you copy and paste a rectangle, black pixels are also copied and can overwrite terrain pixels. (Unlike Paint, this should not be default; it's really annoying to have to turn it off all the time. But having it there would be useful.)

(3) Allow level sizes up to at least 1600 x 1600 -- I think that's the maximum width on the original game.

[Essman]

I have a few new suggestions........

(1) Non-rectangular erasers.
(2) An "opaque mode"
(3) Allow level sizes up to at least 1600 x 1600

1 = Done, you can also paste any bitmap and use it as an eraser
2 = Hmm, maybe, if there is an obvious place for that option to live
3 = Done

[guest]

2 = Hmm, maybe, if there is an obvious place for that option to live

Well that's easy, make a "Paste Opaque" menu item under the "Edit" menu, right beneath the regular "Paste".

[Isu]

How about backwards compatibility?
I fear this is such an obvious suggestion that you're going to make me look a fool for mentioning it.

[Essman]

How about backwards compatibility?

The style and level format of each game are completely different. I plan on making a converter, but don't expect perfect fidelity.

[geoo]

I don't know whether it has been mentioned, but a blocker turns neither bashers nor miners around.
That means, a lemming can simply pass a blocker with bashing! Also miner should be turned around.
I think this should be changed.