the Lix user feedback thread

[ccexplore]

I want to split off some of the stuff off the "community level set" thread to here, so there's a more concise list of issues that came up when people started to use Lix to create and play levels, and to give a more proper place for that kind of feedback.

First, a summary of all the issues that have came up on that other thread:

[note: many of these are not from me, and in many cases the feedback are not from me either.  Think of this first post as a transcription and summary of all user feedback that has transpired on the other thread.  I tried to list everyone's, if I missed something, just re-post your  feedback on this thread]

• (editor) no guide on what the buttons mean?

feedback: You get mouse-over text with "?" turned on.  Maybe "?" should be default.
Maybe there should be a permanent status bar for that sort of text?

• (styles) lack of one-way walls

feedback: you can get equivalent setups with careful use of steel.  But may look into implementing in future.

• (windows) using Alt+Tab to switch in/out of editor cause editor to get stuck unrecovery in "Add Steel" screen

feedback: remapping Tab takes care of the problem.  Suggest to change default editor keymappings to avoid Tab.

• (editor) some objects (ie. thin rectangles) can be hard to drag in editor because the mouse must point to a non-transparent pixel

feedback: perhaps an option where hit-testing is based on the bounding rectangle and z-order, and disregard transparency?

• (styles) lack of hazard objects (eg. slower traps)

feedback: geoo etc. may look into creating more in future

• (editor) request for guideline tool (eg. max safe-fall distance)

feedback: ccexplore took a stab at creating a set of such objects.
Some concerns with making them as decorations vs terrain, may want a "guideline" as a separate object type?

• (linux) exit, save without filename, program hangs

feedback: Simon acknowledge bug and will fix

• filepaths in replay makes it tricky to download and view replays

feedback: recommend convention to save all "community set" levels to levels/single/lixlfpack
may also look into future option to embed level data into replay file

• (styles) lack of 12px/24px blocks

feedback: arguably less useful than 16px/32px blocks, but will consider.

• tutorial level for batters too hard

feedback: noted, will look into making level less intimidating

• editor: no good substitute for Cheapo/Lemming's "Blue" (aka Crystal) style [ie. Rhapsody in Blue]

feedback: circus style? (not suitable in Proxima's case)
will take into consideration when creating more styles later, after expanding on existing styles.

• handling of levels with missing objects/pieces due to style change?

feedback: instead of refusing to load level, allow anyway but with warnings?

• difficult stretching bridges in Lix

feedback: "bad habit" from Lemmings, avoid in level design if possible, use builder queuing instead
if necessary, use zzz mode and retries to ease difficulty

• don't like replays reverting to normal speed "too early" and starting out paused

feedback: (not much in ways of suggestions for now)

• (editor) Lix "underworld" style missing some important terrain from original (eg. spikes, chains, glowing red rocks, etc.)

feedback: geoo will look into trying to add them

• it's easy to accidentally scroll down when selecting skills.

feedback: disable border scrolling, use right-click scrolling instead

• different number of lemmings coming out of each entrance

feedback: interesting but may be too radical a change, may need to display how many will come out from each entrance, and probably a tutorial level
for now, suggest multiple overlapping entrances as a workaround

• (styles) dessert-/candy-themed style

feedback:  will consider after some existing styles are expanded out

• (styles) special graphics levels something to consider for community level set

feedback: (not much in ways of suggestions for now)

• confusion regarding "time achieved" displayed (it's the time achieved in the best-rank solution, not the best-time achieved amongst all solutions)

feedback: maybe better text/display (eg. maybe display "best ranked solution" with all relevant stats including skill counts etc.)

• can't assign climber/floater to a blocker

feedback: (not much follow-up for now, should be looked into to make sure no bug)

• confusion with replays crashing the game or saying "game is too new"

feedback: (not much follow-up for now about the crash)
for game-version mismatch, maybe allow replay but with warning

• some issues with selection priority

feedback: more investigation perhaps? although  Proxima worked around the issue in his own level

• no mini-map (for jumping to different locations in level quickly)

feedback: try right-click scrolling as an alternative

• Lix can drown when their head hits the bottom part of a water object, even though they are standing below water.  Especially strange when the part of water in question is actually covered up by steel.

feedback: maybe steel should take precedence over water?
or perhaps water detection should be revised to not be so head-based?

[ccexplore]

Okay, latest feedback for me:

Consider a way to allow objects to indicate be drawn in front of terrain, instead of always behind like right now.  Alternatively (and equivalently?), a way to allow terrains to indicate be drawn behind objects, instead of always in front of like right now.

Context:  water.  Consider the case of a pole-like terrain that is meant to extend all the way down to the bottom of a pool of water.  Examples can been seen in original Lemmings levels as well as I'm sure plenty of custom Lemmings/Cheapo levels.

Right now the pole will be drawn over the water, so it doesn't look submerged at all and basically looks rather weird.  You could try cutting it off around the water surface but obviously as the water surface is neither perfectly straight nor stationary, it looks weird that way too.

[Simon]

Great work compiling these.

I keep similar lists on real-life paper, but mostly with stuff that also makes it to IRC. The game documentation regarding bugs and wishes is currently out of date, too.

-- Simon

[Clam]

• confusion regarding "time achieved" displayed (it's the time achieved in the best-rank solution, not the best-time achieved amongst all solutions)

feedback: maybe better text/display (eg. maybe display "best ranked solution" with all relevant stats including skill counts etc.)

I'd prefer to have separate records for most saved / least skills / least time, and leave out the 'best-ranked solution' altogether. Ranking solutions is always going to be subjective (are extra lems saved really worth more than skills/time?), but also this method would make it much easier to track scores for challenges.

Consider a way to allow objects to indicate be drawn in front of terrain, instead of always behind like right now.  Alternatively (and equivalently?), a way to allow terrains to indicate be drawn behind objects, instead of always in front of like right now.

Context:  water.

This might also be a useful workaround for the guideline objects. Maybe a distinct 'guideline' type would be preferable still, but this way should be useable enough, and less work to implement.

[ccexplore]

On the skills button bar, the icons for builder/platformer and for the fling/non-fling bombers look too similar, it's quite easy for people to mix them up and accidentally select one when they mean for the other.  Yes, I know keyboard-savvy people like Simon and geoo will be unaffected, but from Clones experience we know that we're likely to get more singleplayer fans than multiplayer, and combine with not having a real hotkey system in the original Lemmings series, I believe the skill buttons will still be a frequent way for many Lix players to pick skills to assign.

For builder/platformer, either make it more clear that the builder is making diagonal stairs, or the platform is making horizontal platform.  As an example, the L2 platformer icon I think looks more obviously horizontal and somewhat more distinguished from the builder.  I'll grant you that barring some radical changes like using a different color altogether for platform bricks (even then that may get overlooked in the heat of things), builders/platforms will always have higher potential of getting mixed up, and maybe in singleplayer with the pausing and replays and what-nots, it's not that big a deal.  All I know is that I've mixed them up more frequently than I care to admit during MP playing http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" /> (granted, you're supposed to use hotkeys in MP anyhow).

For the two bombers, obviously it would help to have more clear indication of flinging, in addition to just the barely larger explosion graphic. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />  The obvious thing would be to put a tumbling lemming overlaying on top of the explosion graphic for the fling version.

[Proxima]

Wanted feature: right-click overrides builder queuing. At the moment it is impossible to assign builder to a walker lemming if there is a builder within the cursor, unless you turn off builder queuing altogether.

[Simon]

Don't hold RMB if you wish to do this.

For builder assignments, the default behavior is to assign to the highest-priority non-builder. Holding RMB overrides this and queues onto the current builder instead.

-- Simon

[finlay]

Are you able to reassign whatever function the RMB has? I haven't been playing Lix recently, but when I do it'll be on my Mac laptop with only one goddamn button – there are ways to imitate a RMB click but you can't do them at the same time as a LMB click.

[Simon]

Noted it.

-- Simon

[Nortaneous]

Is there a way to start a new level besides going into a folder that doesn't already have a level selected?

[Proxima]

Yes, the top-left button in the editor control panel, with the "New Document" icon. Curiously, it doesn't have a hotkey, and isn't available in the options tab for having a hotkey assigned to it.

[Nortaneous]

Ah, okay.

Also, one of the things I'm noticing about the themes is that there aren't really any large pieces, like the pillars in the marble set. I'm trying to remake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeh_WoHfGSA" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">this level, and I'm not seeing anything I could replace the pillar there with, except bricks, which would be ugly.

[mobius]

I noticed recently that you can't make a blocker a climber or floater. Was this intended? If so I'm curious why. While it's not a major issue that I can see, it could come in handy in certain situations. i.e. if you free the blocker and use him to do other stuff.

Also, just wanted to add, I'm finding it hard to adjust to the whole basher's tunnel height thing. I really like it the old way.

on a positive note, I just want to say, I'd like to marry the person who created the entire 'replay' function. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />  As already said, this makes doing 'tedious' tasks; calk walk.

also, I found a useful tool for a builder step guideline; the wooden steps in Simon/wood. Idk if this was intended but there 12 bricks the same size as the builder steps, & I've been using them as a guide.

EDIT: here's something important I forgot; WOuld there be any likely hood of changing the fast forward buttons so there hold down instead of toggle? In other words, you have to hold down the button to fast forward (like in Revolution). I personally find this better for two reasons. One; you usually don't fast forward for long amounts of time and pressing once it just easier imo. Two; it's much easier to make a mistake when toggling on and off.

[Proxima]

Consider a way to allow objects to indicate be drawn in front of terrain, instead of always behind like right now.

At the moment you can't even get objects to draw in front of eraser pieces. This is extremely inflexible, because in fact I can't see why you'd ever want an eraser piece to cover an object, so this just means you can't have objects and eraser pieces in the same vicinity.

When restarting a long level, nearly always you're going to want to press ultra fast-forward. Nuke is located right next to it, and even a single click on nuke aborts the replay so you have to assign all skills again.

[ccexplore]

Also, one of the things I'm noticing about the themes is that there aren't really any large pieces, like the pillars in the marble set. <snip> and I'm not seeing anything I could replace the pillar there with, except bricks, which would be ugly.

I do agree that in general, many of the styles are suffering from an under-representation of non-brick terrain.

As a suggestion, the best way to try to get new terrain pieces incorporated is to create them yourself.  Then pass them onto geoo/Simon for inclusion.

I noticed recently that you can't make a blocker a climber or floater. Was this intended? If so I'm curious why. While it's not a major issue that I can see, it could come in handy in certain situations. i.e. if you free the blocker and use him to do other stuff.

It turns out original Lemmings also disallows assigning climber and floater to the blocker.  This may differ though in other games of the series.  It was suggested that it may be on purpose, on account that you may be more likely to assign to a walker, and if he's near a blocker you don't want to accidentally have the blocker take priority over walkers when assigning skills.  However, that argument sounds rather theoretical and I'm not convinced how often the situation would come up during actual play (maybe more so in MP?).  At the same time, it is also the case that in almost all situations, you can just assign the climber/floater after the blocker is freed instead of before, or maybe do the assignment before the Lix is made blocker.

EDIT: here's something important I forgot; WOuld there be any likely hood of changing the fast forward buttons so there hold down instead of toggle? In other words, you have to hold down the button to fast forward (like in Revolution). I personally find this better for two reasons. One; you usually don't fast forward for long amounts of time and pressing once it just easier imo. Two; it's much easier to make a mistake when toggling on and off.

I kinda like the current system better.  I'm not sure I entirely agree with "you usually don't fast forward for long amounts of time", I think you'll often do that at the end of the level when you're waiting for the crowd to exit.  I know for a fact that having to hold down the button to fast forward in Revolution often annoys me.  When I use FF in Lix, rather than toggling to stop, I usually stop FF by pausing and unpausing.

That said, if enough people want this, I supposed Simon can consider making this an option.  Or perhaps the input handling could be changed so that you need to double-click to toggle FF on.

At the moment you can't even get objects to draw in front of eraser pieces. This is extremely inflexible, because in fact I can't see why you'd ever want an eraser piece to cover an object, so this just means you can't have objects and eraser pieces in the same vicinity.

According to geoo, this is a bug in the editor right now.  When you actually play the level, the object will get drawn in front of eraser pieces.  The editor bug is basically an artifact of the editor using a non-background color to display eraser pieces.  I think it was done that way because the editor currently requires you to click on non-background pixels of terrain in order to select it, which would make eraser pieces unselectable if they were faithfully rendered in the editor as background.