Lix Community Level Set

[Simon]

!!!!! you've put in the original graphic sets!!
but... are we allowed to use these?

No, I think Simon put them in by accident, just like the wurst folder.

Yep, it was a typo in the release shell script. I've re-uploaded the current version without bitmap/orig. Nobody has to download anything afresh; simply don't use L1/L2 graphic sets for lixlfpack levels.

-- Simon

[geoo]

Solutions to the first three.

Don't Catch me if you can: That's actually a really nice solution, should have seen that. My solution uses a somewhat different trick though, so I attached another version.
Derailed level: Now that's really embarassing, though admittedly I didn't really check for backroutes, I just assumed there'd be none after increasing the save requirement (which was 29 at some point, before I made some more changes).
Time to change the road you're on: Yep, that's the initially intended solution. The other solution for the level is one I found later when testing.

I re-downloaded Off the Rails from my attachment and even the original version I uploaded to the site doesn't work with your replays. It says my version of the game is old so that might have something to do with it, but the replays for Trapeze work. Hmmmmm.

Do you have the latest version of Lix? If not there might be a physics change that affect the replays to Off the Rails, but not those for Trapeze.

[mobius]

I finally solved No More Heroes! Hurray for me. (taking a break and coming back to it later really does work). Extra skills can really throw you off. That's what I tried to do on some of my recent levels and it didn't work out so well for me. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" /> Anyway I attached a folder of my levels; some new, some fixes.

I adjusted Tinker Tailor Soldier Lix slightly to make it work better. I was able to solve it my way as it was so Idk why no one else could. But in any case both solutions (mine and Proxima's) work well now & I guess it's an argument of which is better or harder. As for your backroute, we'll just have to wait for an update to fix that digger/miner trick. I could put steel in the beginning, but I'm not sure I want to take Proxima's solution away as it was good.

Now I guess I have to put in a time limit to take away all the backroutes to Division of labor, as there's quite a bit now. I Also took away the climber which I don't even understand why I put it in to begin with, I shouln't have.

Then I have a hard version (not too hard) of one of IS easy levels.

The third is a simple misdirection level of ~tricky/fun difficulty. I'm not sure about this one I just threw it in case.

Lixes in Arms is a remake a from MazuLems.

As for Four Lix and a Funeral, at this point I think I will simply go back to one of my earlier designs. Which ever one you think is the best.

[Proxima]

Solutions to the three new ones -- I'll have a look at the revised Division of Labor soon, but I really must try to get on with building my own levels now (why do you guys have to keep distracting me with so many levels?)

Four Lix: the version with geoo's first backroute and the version with the climber step are out of the question, so the only earlier version worth considering is the one I've attached. I like this one, even if it's presumably simpler than it was meant to be (since I haven't come close to finding the intended solution yet). I'll keep looking, when I have time.

[mobius]

yeah, I didn't spend enough time on that, obviously. If you think it's good, you can keep but I... idk, I think I'll give up on doing remakes. I seem to have a much better time making my own levels than doing remakes...  So far not a single level I remade of some one else has turned out very well (initially at least) And I'm much more proud of my own levels than the remakes.

about Four Lix; in pieuw's solution, he has two lemmings go below while one stays on top and bashes across the entire top platform, until the builder below is done. In Zurlinden's version you have to mine down the steps you build to waste time. If you played both of their levels now however, apparently you and geoo would find other solutions.  And nothing I try to do seems to work. so... I'll go along with what you said.

-and for your recent solutions; IS's level is easier than intended.
-Lix in the house is harder than expected, there's a actually a quicker way to go about it. I'm not sure about this level, if it's any good or not. Idk why I uploaded it actually.
-finally, for Lixes in Arms, it's kinda of a backroute, basically it should be that it doesn't work when all the lemmings are roaming about like normal in the bottom area.

[Proxima]

...why didn't I think of that?  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />

You could prevent geoo's latest backroute by increasing the vertical distance between the halves of the level, so that in his solution the non-floater in the upper half doesn't survive.

Here's a replay showing the intended solution to the "10" version, based on the above description. Also, second solution to geoo's Time to Change the Road.

TM, you should have more confidence in yourself. I know that's hard when we're in the company of geniuses like geoo, ccexplore, Insane Steve and Clam Spammer, but your levels are always fun to solve (and you can make some that are right up there with the hardest of anyone else's, like Eye of the Needle). I enjoyed Lix in the House -- fairly simple when you spot the trick, but pleasantly baffling until you get it. I have the same feeling about my own levels most of the time, but I figure the set needs some medium-difficulty ones for people who aren't insane geniuses....

(Wow, this post brings me to SuperLemming rank at last!)

[Proxima]

Second solutions to Lix in the House and Lixes in Arms.

I'd hardly call my first solution to Lixes in Arms a backroute -- choosing the right lixes to make into the climbers to get the timing right when everyone is roaming freely is considerably harder than the main solution, which I pulled off first try after reading your above comment. In addition, my first solution needs pixel precision with the first digger (otherwise you will cut the bridge).

[Proxima]

Third solution to Lix in the House. This one uses the fewest skills so far, and no-one goes further right than the first diggable wall.

I discovered that most old replays don't work on the current version of Lix -- for whatever reason, the timing of when skills are assigned is often slightly out, and sometimes this can have large effects on the solution. I've been going through my replays, discarding any I don't need any more (as it is a bit tedious to search through the folder) and fixing the rest. In fixing Clam's solution to Stuff in the Way, I found a variant that is undoubtedly a backroute -- unfortunately, I don't think this one's likely to be fixable as simply as by adding a time limit, unless the intended solution is very quick.

...and then I found a solution to Stuff that looks much more likely to be intended. If so, then perhaps the best way to eradicate the backroutes is to lower the steel block on the other side of the gap just a fraction, so you can't get under it by building from the left any more?

Also, I noticed that the solution (not just my saved replay) to Behind Bars doesn't work in the current Lix. Please change the initial RR to 52 (and, for consistency, make this change on It's time to climb as well). I'd also like to change the save requirement on Charge of the Lix Brigade to 300.

[Simon]

Reason for failing replays: The ascender doesn't skip ahead by 1 lo-res pixel any more, and the animation was changed slightly to account for that. Skipping the pixel annoyed most people, it made the ascender end up in mid-air sometimes, and it didn't even look better when they did it.

-- Simon

[chaos_defrost]

Ah, ok. I'll get the newest version soon.

Yea, add the modern skills to Any Way You Want. Speaking of which, I had my own hand at making a harder version of it (with TM's modification to the left side and a couple others), and it turned into a Hero Time level. Naturally.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

Also here's Trapeze without the ceiling. I'll get around to making a new ceiling level soon.

[Proxima]

After this, I promise that for the next seven days, I will not solve anyone else's levels, all my Lix time will be devoted to building  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

[chaos_defrost]

Heh, didn't see that.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

Here's a new version. There's not supposed to be exactly one route but there's also not supposed to be a route that requires so few tasks.

[mobius]

After this, I promise that for the next seven days, I will not solve anyone else's levels, all my Lix time will be devoted to building  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

then I promise to not build and solve your levels (and other people's) (watch that fail miserably)

FourLixAndAFuneral10- (sigh, I'm just getting tired of hearing that). Good job Proxima, that's pretty much the intended solution. However I have a feeling geoo or some one will still find a backroute.

Stuff In the way- Proxima's thrid solution is pretty close to the correct one. (Remember this was a level by Tseug, no breaks here.) In the original you have 2 minutes. The only thing to do differently, is you start the digging/building/bashing in the beginning area sooner and the two builders that build toward each other go back to the exit from there. The left has to build higher so the right one hits him and turns around, just enough to bash through the final obsticale and nobody turns around.
Clam's solution deserves an honorable mention however, it came within seconds. And I like that trick you used. I attached the version with 2 minutes in case you decide to use it.

Lixes in Arms- Proxima's second solution is good enough. Geoo got the exact route. and for the record, I guess I won't consider your first a backroute since it doesn't save the same amount. And maybe somebody playing would go back and try to save more and realize the other solutions. I don't know how to get rid of it anyway.

Is there a Lix in the house- those are all fine. This was supposed to be an early "trick" level for beginners, that seems more complicated than it really is. I don't know how well I did.

[Proxima]

FourLixAndAFuneral10- (sigh, I'm just getting tired of hearing that). Good job Proxima, that's pretty much the intended solution. However I have a feeling geoo or some one will still find a backroute.

He already did http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> I suggested removing it by lowering the last platform and exit (attached). Now that I know the intended solution, I agree that it would be better to enforce it if possible.

Solution to 2-minute version of Stuff in the Way attached. Here, too, I really like the extra ingenuity needed to get everything to work within the time limit.

Lixes in Arms -- Proxima's second solution is good enough. Geoo got the exact route. and for the record, I guess I won't consider your first a backroute since it doesn't save the same amount. And maybe somebody playing would go back and try to save more and realize the other solutions. I don't know how to get rid of it anyway.

You don't understand. A backroute is an unintended solution that spoils a level by being much easier to find than the correct solution. My first solution to Lixes in Arms certainly is not -- the only reason I found it first is that I like challenges and can be a bit stubborn about them (I have to be, to compete with this group!) so, when I saw a solution concept that could use only four diggers, instead of thinking "where is the fifth digger meant to be used?" I thought "okay, this may be impossible but I'm damn well going to find out!" So it's as it should be -- the challenge solution is statistically superior but you have to put in more work for it. (Yes, I lost one lix due to not-fully-perfect timing but this can certainly be avoided; replay attached.)

Of course, you could take out this route by increasing the number of lix. But please don't. Two words: replay value.

Is there a Lix in the house- those are all fine. This was supposed to be an early "trick" level for beginners, that seems more complicated than it really is. I don't know how well I did.

You did fine -- I had an unsuccessful play session and had to go away, think about it and come back before I solved it http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

[chaos_defrost]

Here's two replays and a close fail for geoo's set of three. I imagine Have if Off is reasonably close to right, but I'm not up to trying to get the timings exactly right to pull this off.