Lix Community Level Set

[mobius]

hey, I did! I solved Brickout, (the one from the above post) I feel like Brody from Jaws tying knots.
is that the intended? and i save more than required  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

here's another easy one from Pieuw. The original level "Underground water storage" has hidden water underground. I thought you wouldn't like that so I made mine a little different. I'm also working on two of my own. One will feature lengthening a basher's tunnel mask, if you don't have any levels featuring that particular trick yet.

anybody try my update to Last laugh? I'd like to know if it's easier or harder than Clam and Proxima's previous solutions. I attached the intended solution to save time.

[Clam]

anybody try my update to Last laugh? I'd like to know if it's easier or harder than Clam and Proxima's previous solutions. I attached the intended solution to save time.

I solved it again, I doubt this is the intended solution still - it's quite similar to Proxima's solution to the earlier version.

[ccexplore]

hey, I did! I solved Brickout, (the one from the above post) I feel like Brody from Jaws tying knots.
is that the intended? and i save more than required  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

Haha, well, good job, even though yes, it's a backroute. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" /> I can't believe I didn't see this one, seems like it would've worked in earlier versions of the level too.

Hmm, I need to see what I can do now.  It does sound like I finally need to do some drastic changes to make the level work the way I wanted.  Stay tuned......

[mobius]

I solved it again, I doubt this is the intended solution still - it's quite similar to Proxima's solution to the earlier version.

nope that's it. The only thing I did different was set the bomber as he was falling. It stinks because it's really not like the original. The original has you bomb, then the two waiting for the builder climb up and bash, and because of a glitch or something, they fall back down facing the same direction and climb up again. It was done in Lemmini. Even Pieuw himself said he doesn't know why this happens. I couldn't find anything in the glitches thread that accounts for this.
I couldn't yet think of a better way to implement this in here.

[Clam]

The original has you bomb, then the two waiting for the builder climb up and bash, and because of a glitch or something, they fall back down facing the same direction and climb up again. It was done in Lemmini.

Lemmini has different mechanics to PC (DOS) Lemmings, which Lemmix copies. That means you get glitches that happen in Lemmini and not Lemmix, and vice versa. Also, the glitch thread focuses on the official Lemmings ports, of which Lemmini isn't one, so there's nothing on that there.

What might be happening is that Lemmini miscalculates the lemming's position immediately after it finishes climbing, so it's positioned outside the wall, on air, at the moment you assign the basher. The basher then falls because there's no ground under it. This is just a guess, I'm not familiar with Lemmini's mechanics and I haven't seen the original level either.

[ccexplore]

Yeah, I'm not sure whether glitches are eligible in the community set.  You are probably better off not trying to copy the original on this one.  (That said, I haven't seen neither the original nor the remake yet at this point.)

=========

On another note, the Brickout saga continues with B6 now.  I manage to stave off ultra-dramatic changes, although already you can see some signs of desperate measures. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />

[edit: okay, presenting Deathly Hallows Part 1, I mean http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=593.msg12974#msg12974" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">B7 *sigh*]

[Simon]

The problem with glitches is that they'll be fixed if they're too abstruse.

Similarly, there may be slight physics changes, so pixel-perfect flinging is usually discouraged in level design; the level author should look if it still works in future versions with physics fixes.

-- Simon

[Proxima]

Replay for It's All Uphill.

I did solve the revised Last Laugh (same solution as Clam, slightly different implementation -- I used the basher and only 3 jumpers). I'm not sure which version I think is harder. This new one does have that awesome feeling of looking impossible at first; but once you see that there's only one approach to the exit (the other exit being obviously impossible) and that all your builders are required to reach it, it's not too hard to spot.

I agree with the others, let's keep glitches out of this. You guys think solving a level and finding that a hidden trap at the end prevents your solution is annoying? That's nothing compared to staring a puzzle that looks impossible and feeling "this must have some really awesome solution" and then finding out it required you to know a glitch all along. That would turn me off from playing an entire game, not just disliking one level.

[geoo]

Had a quick go at Brickout B6, new backroute this time.

I'll check through the new levels thoroughly and update the list sometime this weekend.
Just had a short go at a few, solutions to Toccata and Chasm are attached.

Yeah, as I already wrote on the very first page, I don't think there should be levels using obscure glitches. If a level uses some behaviour that isn't very obvious/intuitive (even if it might be to seasoned lemmings players, or something like cubers pushing lix upwards when inside), then I also think it's good to have it shown off somewhere previously (for instance as something that happens as a side-effect you'll notice, or in a level specifically designed to show it off. I'll cover a bit in the tutorials though).

[Proxima]

Update to the Waltz levels, and decorative terrain added to Down Among the Dead Lix. The two solutions to Toccata so far posted are not intended, but I'm undecided what to do about them. (My solution is attached.) I'm very impressed with Clam's 100% on Labyrinth of Persia; I had wondered whether that was achievable.

[mobius]

I didn't mean I wanted to make this level with a glitch. I was trying to adapt it in some non-glitch way but it looks like it's not working out so... just forget it I guess.

For the Uphill level, for some reason the entrances are closer together than I wanted, I must've forgot to save after some small changes or something. Idk if it even matters though, but it could make it so you can't solve it the way you did. (I had it so that the lix were more evenly spaced).

[Proxima]

I didn't mean I wanted to make this level with a glitch. I was trying to adapt it in some non-glitch way but it looks like it's not working out so... just forget it I guess.

What do you mean by "forget it"? I hope you're not considering leaving the level out altogether? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" /> Either of the non-glitch versions is a very nice level, I'm just not entirely sure which of the two I prefer. (I think maybe the first one... as there's more variety in terms of what you might attempt to see if it leads anywhere. Also, having exploders and the level requiring 3/4 when the solution saves 100% anyway is a neat red herring.)

For the Uphill level, for some reason the entrances are closer together than I wanted, I must've forgot to save after some small changes or something. Idk if it even matters though, but it could make it so you can't solve it the way you did. (I had it so that the lix were more evenly spaced).

I think my solution will always work, since even if the entrances are placed so the first two lix come out right on top of each other, you can simply select one of the first two as the pass-through blocker, leaving the other free to be the digger.

[Proxima]

This level pair has a rather interesting history.

The easier version (We'll Meet Again) can be solved using either exit alone, or using both. My intention was for the harder version (originally called Lemming Dilemma) to have only one solution, using the left exit. ccexplore found a backroute using the right exit, which I removed by expanding the gap to make it require 2 builders. ccexplore then found a very ingenious route to reach the right exit on this revised version, which I was happy to leave in as a challenge solution.

However... there are times, few and far between, when even ccexplore nods. When I came to remake this level, I noticed that the backroute was still possible. Also, I could improve ccexplore's clever solution to make it use only 3 diggers. Since the backroute required 4 to be possible within the time limit (yes, I'm afraid on this one the time limit is absolutely essential) I could eliminate it by giving only 3. This would also eliminate my original intended solution (which used all 5) but that was okay -- there was nothing especially elegant or even difficult about it. So I prepared to release a version of the level in which ccexplore's method was the only solution.

But wait... might there be a way to reach the left exit with only 3 diggers after all? Incredibly, I managed to get it to work; this is easily hard enough to belong in the Challenges topic, if this was an official level. So now, in the final version of the level, either exit can be reached but both are much harder than I originally intended. Unless, of course, there's a backroute that neither of us detected....

[mobius]

I didn't mean I wanted to make this level with a glitch. I was trying to adapt it in some non-glitch way but it looks like it's not working out so... just forget it I guess.

What do you mean by "forget it"? I hope you're not considering leaving the level out altogether? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" /> Either of the non-glitch versions is a very nice level, I'm just not entirely sure which of the two I prefer. (I think maybe the first one... as there's more variety in terms of what you might attempt to see if it leads anywhere. Also, having exploders and the level requiring 3/4 when the solution saves 100% anyway is a neat red herring.)

For the Uphill level, for some reason the entrances are closer together than I wanted, I must've forgot to save after some small changes or something. Idk if it even matters though, but it could make it so you can't solve it the way you did. (I had it so that the lix were more evenly spaced).

I think my solution will always work, since even if the entrances are placed so the first two lix come out right on top of each other, you can simply select one of the first two as the pass-through blocker, leaving the other free to be the digger.

Well I'll let everyone decide which level they like then, if you think it's good whatever. Just out of curiosity while we're on the subject. Is somebody going to be voting on the final number of levels later or something like that? Or is this the final list they're making?
 
For Uphill, I meant I wanted so the lix were spaced not two on top of each other but separately. As if it was just one entrance set at 5 (99 on old L) The reason for two, I think was to separate the very first lemming (& maybe just for decoration) But this level should be an easy one anyway. I like your second solution a lot though.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />

Then, I have a replay of Brickout and I thought I'd bring this to your attention; it seems to me that the saw doesn't serve it's intended purpose. You'll see the lix gets very close, well touches it and doesn't die. Was this intended? Or did I stumble on a glitch? I guess it really depends on the hit test area, maybe all u need to do is move the saw a little for it work right. (if anything is actually wrong at all)

Finally, I have another level of my own. This one didn't turn out exactly like I wanted but I'm still kinda happy with it. There's a backroute that would be fixed easily with a one way wall. [so just imagine the big block near the beginning at the bottom is a one way wall to the right]

edit: forgot to attach the files http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/embarrassed.gif" alt=":-[" title="Embarrassed" class="smiley" />

[geoo]

Re: Buridan, I'm afraid the digger shovelling behaviour (I'm still not too fond of it because it allows for so many microscopic tricks) allows for some pretty bad backroute to get down along the left (moving up the pipe would fix it, not sure whether it has effect on the intended route). Same can be applied to the other version of the level, using the blocker instead.

Well I'll let everyone decide which level they like then, if you think it's good whatever. Just out of curiosity while we're on the subject. Is somebody going to be voting on the final number of levels later or something like that? Or is this the final list they're making?
 
For Uphill, I meant I wanted so the lix were spaced not two on top of each other but separately. As if it was just one entrance set at 5 (99 on old L) The reason for two, I think was to separate the very first lemming (& maybe just for decoration) But this level should be an easy one anyway. I like your second solution a lot though.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />

Spawn interval 5 in Lix is actually equivalent to RR 97 in the original, and spawn interval 4 is RR 99.

As for the levels, the ones that end up on the list are intended to be used in the end. At least my plan was to get about deciding on the amount of difficulty ratings, and then ordering the levels that are on the list. I don't think there's the need to kick out any of them (unless we end up with like 300, or if there's general consensus that some level sucks). That said, I think currently there's some shortage of Fun-difficulty levels.

As for the buzzsaw, that behaviour is perfectly normal and intended. The trigger area of the buzzsaw isn't that wide, and is checked against the eye and the central position of the feet.

Eye of the Needle is an interesting level, even without the OWW (though it might be that in the future, the physics will allow to make a bomber hole and bash under the steel towards the right without the basher hitting the steel). Attached my solution.