Lix Community Level Set

[mobius]

what the heck, I have that and it still doesn't work. Your supposed to put it in "bitmap right?" Well the tiles come up in the editor.

it looks like a good level btw.

[geoo]

You need to put it in bitmap/geoo/, so that the file structure is bitmap/geoo/abstract/[two folders and a bunch of files here].
Solved the level and attached the solution, I saved quite a lot and got a lot of skills left over, so I'm not sure whether the solution is intended.

As for yours, TM, I gave it 20 minutes or so today, and I haven't solved it yet, actually. So that trick is certainly not obvious. I'll try it further tomorrow. As for the name, did you mean to say something like "Ein einfaches, halbherziges Puzzle"? I'd have translated it the obvious way, "A simple, half-hearted puzzle", though I think considering I've been having problems with this level so far, I'm not sure how fitting such a name is. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" /> The cut off bricks look a bit odd, perhaps rods or pipes would look better there, but apart from that I think the level looks fine, with or without the decoration at the top. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

[mobius]

it works http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> and it's a good level too. (Nortaneous) I didn't solve it yet because I'm too busy but whether it's hard or not I like the look of it a lot.

sweet, I finally stumped somebody. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />
The title is just a reference to the song "A Simple Desultory Philippic". Desultory, to me, means rambling or going off topic, or lacking in consistency, constancy... But I don't quite like the sound of my title anyway. I'll either change it to the song title or just "conundrum" if that name isn't already taken. I got this idea after watching some of Tseug's levels. (Don't worry though this level doesn't use any glitch or weird  thing like that).

[Nortaneous]

geoo: That differs from the intended solution only at the end. Here's a version that should fix that, although I'm not quite sure whether to count it as a backroute.

Anyway, I originally wanted to have the lava go all the way up to the slopes on the sides of the ring, but it turns out that the trigger area of the lava extends one pixel past where it appears to end, so if it's positioned on the grid, it kills the climber going left. Considering that there's apparently no way to overwrite traps, I can't get it to work. Oh well.

[Nortaneous]

re: Brickout - Here's my solution. I'm hoping that's a backroute, considering how many parts of the solution have to be perfectly timed.

[ccexplore]

Ok, try this version now and see what solutions you get this time around.  I expect this is far from the last of the backroutes yet...... http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />

Boy how true that was. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" /> Trying to salvage my "Brickout" solution ends up being like 10 times more difficult than the level itself. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />  Almost every part of the level is subjected to conflicting requirements when it comes to backroute elimination. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />

In the end some major changes are made, as you can see in this new "B" version.  Even the solution is no longer quite the same as my original, but is pretty close, and in some ways better I think.  I hope the B version is less backroute-prone, but I have the feeling with so much lost sleep, I undoubtedly have missed something. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />

I've made this a "B" version because geoo actually found some pretty nifty solutions in my first two versions, to the point that it is worth considering changing those versions of the level to enforce his solutions instead.  I'll leave the decision up to him whether to include just A with his solution(s), just B, or both.

[edit: moved the decorative terrain out of the way as it looks like they can still be utilized.  I'll figure out what to do with them later]

[edit2: foiled once again!  The curse of conflicting requirements has striked yet again. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" /> See http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=593.msg12901#msg12901" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">new post for next replacement attempt]

[mobius]

here's two more. The first is based on one of pieuw's which was a remakes of somebody else's. I can't find the video on youtube so I can't remember who it was. But mine here isn't exactly like it anyway. Firstly, please leave the time limit in as it's necessary [without it the level is a dud]. I finished it with a few seconds to spare so I added 15. I'm sure there are multiple solutions, I don't actually remember what the 'intended' solution was. I tried briefly to eliminate the most obvious solution but it might still be possible. If so I'll change that.

Next is one loosely based off a level from Revolution, "Which Switch is Which?". It's not like it enough to be called a remake in my opinion. It's easy, fun or tricky at most.

I wouldn't be so hard on yourself, ccexplore, about being artistic. I think Brickout looks fine, artistically speaking. after all sometimes simple is better

[geoo]

Ok, for Brickout, I think adding a hatch in the center with a convenient landing platform below opened up a new can of worms. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

Anyway, I originally wanted to have the lava go all the way up to the slopes on the sides of the ring, but it turns out that the trigger area of the lava extends one pixel past where it appears to end, so if it's positioned on the grid, it kills the climber going left. Considering that there's apparently no way to overwrite traps, I can't get it to work. Oh well.

Ah, I see, yeah, it'd look nicer with the lava extending up to the top.
I encountered one issue with trigger areas being too large (i.e. trigger areas that should be disjoint appear to overlap) recently, and I think Simon's going to look into it. Might be that this is related to this issue and will be fixed, but it might also be that by the game logic at some point the lix is within the wall. I'll ask Simon.
Solved it again, basically the same way as before.

sweet, I finally stumped somebody. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />
The title is just a reference to the song "A Simple Desultory Philippic". [...]

Ah, in that case, ignore what I said about the name earlier.
Had a fresh look at the level again today, and managed to solve it. Love the idea, and I think it's well hidden and there's enough other things to try out. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

Found two solutions to "too far to walk": one saves 96 and has almost a minute to spare, and the other takes a bit more time and saves fewer, but I think it might be what you intended.
Of course I don't remove time limits on every level; it's obvious that this one needs the time limit.
The other one is indeed pretty trivial, but makes a good level for one of the first ratings.

All solutions are attached.

[mobius]

for Too far to walk, the second is the intended (at least it's pieuw's level). I really can't say if his allowed for the other method or not. (which is really cool btw!). I have to look on youtube and there's hundreds of levels... I can't even remember the name.

you can change the title of 'simple desultory...' to just "conundrum".

as for 'brickout', am I close?  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" /> I saved all but that one.

then I posted another new one that I worked on today. It's more of a execution style level rather than puzzle difficulty. I might change it or do something else with it idk yet.

[ccexplore]

Brickout B has proven to be a disaster thanks to my ill-considered decision to add land directly below the second entrance (in an attempt to reduce number of skills as a backroute-prevention effort). http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />

I have decided that I need to do the right thing by removing one particular skill that has clearly been problematic (and adjusting other skills).  I have kept it around so far to try to entice the player into trying more routes that aren't supposed to work, but obviously so far it has just ended up enabling route after route instead. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />

Thus the new Brickout B here.  I also took out many of the "band-aid fixes" seen in previous iterations, since I think the skill removal is sufficient.  But to be honest, there were so many backroutes I no longer remember which ones relied on the removed skill and how strongly so.  At least by starting fresh with no band-aid fixes, I can just add them back in later on an as-needed basis.  Let's see what happens now.

(note: the first edit of this post is for inclusion of reply to TM below, no changes in level)

as for 'brickout', am I close?  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" /> I saved all but that one.

Your solution can definitely be modified just slightly to save 48/48 on the old version of Brickout B.  However, it's render moot now since I got rid of that bit of land underneath the middle entrance area.  That addition created far more problems than what it was intended to fix. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />

It did seem like the old "Brickout B" manages by sheer accident to be a somewhat interesting level that is not super-hard, and has multiple solutions, so maybe there's something to be said for including it in the set under those type of levels.  I dunno.

[edit2: see http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=593.msg12912#msg12912" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">new version]

[geoo]

Sweet, a third climber, time for new (or revived old) backroutes!

Also solved Babylon fading, I didn't find it that trivial to figure, actually. And execution was a not a problem at all.
What do you think of this design for Conundrum btw, with rods instead of cut off bricks?

[Clam]

Well, I've neglected this topic somewhat lately (doesn't help that I missed about 50 posts while I was away last weekend), but I am still playing the levels posted here though. In fact, I've solved all but ccexplore's houses of flying lixes, so if there are any levels you want more replays and/or feedback on, I'm happy to provide this.

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It's also good to keep in mind that it's always possible to create your own custom levelset instead of going into this one.  Clam for example has mulled over repeatedly whether some of his levels should go into his own set vs this one (to be clear, for reasons other than disagreement over level design philosophy, I think).

Yep, my reasons aren't to do with disagreement at all, and in fact I'm mostly in agreement with Simon and geoo's views on level design (albeit maybe not so zealously). I've decided to keep my levels separate from the community set, for two main reasons:
1) Since I've made enough (or near enough) to qualify as a full set, it makes more sense to keep all my levels together, rather than having some here and some there.
2) As geoo said back in the first post in this topic, this project is primarily for those who can't or won't make a full set, so it seems a bit rude to stick my own levels in too. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

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Now for the fun part, here are seven new (unless you've seen them already via the IRC) levels! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> Like I mentioned earlier on, maybe I shouldn't put these in the community set topic since they aren't going in that set, but it's so cold and lonely in the other Lix levels topic. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/scared.gif" alt=":scared:" title="Scared" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

'Abridged Version', 'Mirror Mines', 'No Killer, All Filler' and 'Bridge Burnout' are "flower levels, for the girls", as Simon put it, basically easy early-Tricky type levels that you can solve without really thinking. This type of level may even get a full rating in my set, who knows http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />. 'Infinite Timer' and 'Sand me down' are moderate difficulty (the latter somewhat harder), and 'Wrap your head around this one!' is a toughie, definitely one for my Insane rating http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />. (For replay purposes, these are in /levels/single for now, until I classify these properly.)

[Proxima]

geoo: Thank you. I don't feel my levels are worth such a compliment, but if you want me to stay with the level project, I'll do my best and we'll see how it goes. I must get chapter II.7 finished today, though, so no new levels from me until that's done.

TM: attached my solution to "Too Far", which saves 98. It's similar to the intended route but also uses fewer skills. If you decide this is a backroute, it can easily be prevented by reducing the red bricks to a single row except at the end.

"Escape": yes, good level for an easy set. I saved 100%, essentially geoo's solution with a tiny modification. A second 49/50 solution exists (too obvious to be worth uploading) with only one athlete, sent up to the right from the start.

Haven't solved "Babylon" yet but it's definitely a nice puzzle. (I thought I had a solution, but I didn't realise the rod to the left of the upper water was steel http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" /> ) You might consider moving the initial view all the way left, adding terrain above the crusher trap, and fixing that odd gap in the long vertical wall. The execution for this level doesn't seem to be too bad; there are a couple of precision moves, but with the replay feature (especially having a reliable replay feature, unlike Cheapo's) these just don't seem annoying any more. However, as I said in your "Level types" topic, I personally enjoy being challenged by execution aspects of a level and the feeling of exhilaration at getting them right, and that's one of the main reasons I feel unsure about whether my levels will fit with the aim of this project. Much more so than hidden traps -- I can actually only think of one level, off the top of my head, that used them, "Rockabye Baby", and that's another example where it's obvious there will be traps as the level would be trivial otherwise. Also, ccexplore heavily backrouted the Cheapo version and those may be impossible to fix, so I might throw out that level anyway. But I will definitely use time limits, not often, but in cases where I feel I'd rather do so. As ccexplore said in the "Fake Difficulty" topic -- "Since you are not likely to please everyone, perhaps the best thing to do is just to make levels that you'd enjoy playing yourself."

Haven't solved "Conundrum" yet either -- looks to be an excellent puzzle level. You might want to hold off on decorative terrain for Underworld style levels anyway. Honestly, this style is really unbearable, especially considering its Lemmings counterpart is one of the best styles, so if geoo doesn't get round to designing more pieces for it then I certainly will.

Clam: I'd be interested to see your solution to Waltz in C Sharp Miner, particularly if it uses fewer skills and is different from geoo's third solution (his other three should be blocked by the extra steel).

[Proxima]

Solution to Babylon Fading.

EDIT: ...and Conundrum. Really beautiful puzzle!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

[mobius]

I'm surprised/glad Conundrum's turning about to be a somewhat difficult level. I came upon it's design by accident. What I was originally trying to do wasn't working out at all and I found I could implement this without changing the layout barley at all. It apparently worked to hide it's solution.
I don't really care for those poles though. It just doesn't seem to go with the terrain but that's just me. I don't see why the cut outs don't look right. it Also, If I wanna be nit picky, you can take away the decoration I put at the top, I like it bare.

The crack in Babylon Fading was to prevent you from digging down all the way on that column, and then build up from the bottom. Though, I'm pretty sure now, that's not possible I'll get rid of it.
Both your solutions were good, try it now, minus two skills. I intended on having to using the blocker. Unless you think this solution is easier.

Proxima your solution on Too far to walk, is really nice! That actually gives me an idea for another level. I'm kinda thinking this level should be kept open for multiple solutions but see what you think. I found the video of Pieuw's here. Looking at it now, I see his is probably tougher. tell me what you think/which version/solution is best. Also, I should put his name on it.
Ever here of Mazulems?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGzaQTn6h3Q#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Lemmings - Custom Level

Since Clam has a level titled "Bridge Burnout" I should change my level; 'Bridges Burning' to... "Catch Me When I Fall".

here's three more, one's from yesterday I forgot. I just realized they all kind of have a similar idea behind them unfortunately. I'll have to focus now on making a level without bashers, or just a different set of skills in general.
I got the idea behind 1 silvere etc, after Insane Steve's Razor's Edge. I expect backroutes. I always try to test out backroutes myself but I'm too impatient.