glitches in other Lemmings games

[mobius]

(Before posting that^ I looked ".box" up on a file extension info site and didn't find much of insight. However just now I looked it up again on a different sight and found something which may be very interesting.
What I did find was a mention of our game and link http://www.elberethzone.net/en/dup-supportedgames.html." class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.elberethzone.net/en/dup-supportedgames.html. Which is some person's site who makes a program that supposedly lets you open and hack game files. I'm probably leaping to conclusions but this may just allow you to modify the game, even make an editor! (I would myself but my knowledge of programming is extremely limited) Anyway I'm going to test this program out later.

Cool. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> Let me know if it works for you.  I'll try myself later this week.  It'll certainly be helpful I think, even if it's just a pretty small step towards a goal of game modification.

It's pretty interesting. I didnt do much with it yet but I was able to extract some of the sound files, including the music! (i always loved the music to this game). I also discovered there are a lot of bizzare sound files in there that don't appear in the actual game, like sounds from original lemmings, and the voice of some guy singing a reggae like song. ...seriously. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

I was able to play around with it briefly and also review the relevant source code of the program.

There's a bug in the program so not all files are correctly extracted, and I suspect in some cases the file contents will get mixed up with one another.  However I was able to clearly see the format of the BOX files.  It's pretty simple (simple enough that had I bother to look at it with a hex editor, I could probably figure it all out just like that), and I'll write a more accurate extraction program over the next few days, and document the format somewhere on the forum for posterity.

patch.box is basically just a set of replacement files to be used over the version of files in lemmings.box.

The real challenge would be to crack the format of the LVL level files, that might take a while.

[mobius]

wow, awesome. I'm guessing your a programmer by trade?  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

anyway, something new happened today when playing Revolution, in "Under and Up". This never happened to me before on this level and it happened on the first time now so this might be due to windos7. I tried to record of video of it happening but Camstudio went ape and when I tried to do it again it didn't happen  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" />.

What happened was after the time door closed i started digging with the 'worker lemming and while he was under the crab all these lemmings starting coming in there. I looked and saw that a bunch were stuck inside the door.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />. Somehow they were going through the closed door (with no action on my part that I could see at the time). No idea what's going on here but in that pic it shows a build brick I used to get some unstuck. and where the cursor is is where it happened (the second was taken in another go of the level in which i failed to reproduce it)

[if u look in the first u can see all the lemmings getting away on the right that shouldn't be there]

(also you can see the after effects of the 'basher/builder glitch right there, which incidentally really comes in handy on this level)

[ccexplore]

I have not had time to even play the game since like Tuesday, but I have reached that "Under and Up" level so I'll see if I can repro what you saw.

Incidentally, earlier in the week I had repro'd the basher/builder glitch you mentioned (I saw it in "Bridges").  Actually I think it's the exact same thing LemSteven was reporting, just that because his description was too brief, I didn't realize he might be talking about the same glitch as you were.

The list of glitches on the original post is probably a little out of date at this point, I'll try to find some time to update it with all the latest reports on the thread.

[LemSteven]

Incidentally, earlier in the week I had repro'd the basher/builder glitch you mentioned (I saw it in "Bridges").  Actually I think it's the exact same thing LemSteven was reporting, just that because his description was too brief, I didn't realize he might be talking about the same glitch as you were.

Yes, that's the same glitch I was trying to report.  I guess I wasn't specific enough.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

[mobius]

oops, sorry. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/embarrassed.gif" alt=":-[" title="Embarrassed" class="smiley" /> I thought you just meant the way bashers sometimes take out a little stuff all around them (sometimes behind and above).
its so odd though, I mean the way it works makes me think the 'bashing operation' is a lot more complicated then just deleting the material that was there.

I'll add another thing mentioned at the thread for saving  100% on  'One way ticket', but not mentioned here, about bashers; when a lemming is assigned basher and there is no terrain directly ahead of him, they will bash a little out from above them,  the lemming will bash a little but then keep walking if there's still no terrain ahead of them. But if there is terrain directly ahead of them when you assign basher they won't do this.

-You can heighten a basher's tunnel this way.
-combined with building, you can 'bash up' through terrain (especially thin ceilings)

-I'm gonna test this but I don't think they will bash above when finishing bashing like normal.

[mobius]

here's another odd glitch that I suspect is level-specific. (on 'When Two Tribes go to War') I assigned one of the acid lemmings a blocker on the left platform and when I went to bomb/reset him, when the countdown finished and he "oh-no!'ed" he fell through the steel for no apparent reason. Amazingly I actually managed to assign builder and successfully save him.  Actually I think i had to assign two builders, when I did once, he just stopped falling as if stuck in the steel then another one and he was free, (but he was close to the edge when a blocker anyway)

here's a picture:

[LemSteven]

^Interesting... I do know that if you assign a bomber close to the left edge of a platform, he can fall off the edge as he enters the "Oh No" phase.  I've never actually seen him go through the platform, though.

[mobius]

I documented the "disappearing" glitch I mentioned earlier.
So far I've only seen it happen on 'Reduce and Simmer'
When a lemming walks over to this area (see picture below) they will stop whatever they are doing, ei. walking or performing a skill, flop strangely like a fish and then vanish and die (the counter actually decreases).

[ccexplore]

flop strangely like a fish and then vanish and die (the counter actually decreases).

A little hard to tell since it's not shown in the screenshot, but your description seems to match a drowning lemming.  Perhaps the level data has some errors causing that area to be treated as water?

[mobius]

flop strangely like a fish and then vanish and die (the counter actually decreases).

A little hard to tell since it's not shown in the screenshot, but your description seems to match a drowning lemming.  Perhaps the level data has some errors causing that area to be treated as water?

I dont think so because drowning lemmings kind of slump forward then move downward (through the water). With this the lemmings just remains still and flop back and forth. It's really weird I've never seen it in any other place. However it could be what you said except for some reason they remains still and don't fall downward like they would through water.

-I've discovered an interesting trick u can do with the miner glitch. If you place two blockers  close together and have a lemming in the middle mine, he will keep getting turned around (while mining) but if he is positioned correctly he will leave a thin space of material in the middle.

in the picture u can see two separate holes made with one miner. The blocker on the right was free'd before I took the picture

[mobius]

anyway, now that I probe my memory, I seem to remember an instance on another level (not Tanksalot) that the glitch (fall height glitch) happened 

Since I've been playing this game again lately, I recently discovered I was right about that! ^^

In 12-8 "Just you wait!" If lemmings walk off the platform directly left of the entrance the fall height from there is the infamous 50/50 chance of death or life.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" /> (btw, just as a reminder, I DO have the patched version  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />)

As a side note that's not really that important; we don't really know if it's 50/50 chance I could play this level a lot and take notes and calculations but I dont think I have time for that  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

----------

<back to other glitches I've been researching recently>

there may be some kind of glitch that happens with one way walls. But it needs more investigating.

-In 'Now You're Stalking' when I dug near the exit in the middle of two oow climbed up the one way wall terrain he stopped in the middle and walked into and through the terrain then climbed again inside it and got out on top and went on as normal.

-In When Two tribes go to war(I posted this above) a lemming strangley fell through solid steel (near a one-way wall)

-there were two other instances where something similar happened which I can't remember now but I think they all happened near one-way-walls.

========
I haven't been having much luck with that^ so I decided to look into diggers (since I noticed you don't have anything for them yet.

-If you dig at the very edge of a wall where the wall is made of steel or a one way wall in the wrong direction* or the lemming is halfway on steel and half way on regular terrain, even if the lemming is standing on terrain he will swing once and stop and no terrain will be seen being removed, BUT it actually has. One layer of terrain gets removed like normal (see picture; the lemmings appear to be 'walking in the terrain'
You can also test this on "Feeling Gravity's Pull. The middle entrance above the balloon; if a lemming digs close enough to the wall it will look like nothing got removed but the lemmings will fall through (because it is also a very thin terrain).
I'll continuing investigating it, to get a better accuracy

*need to test

========
the downward one way wall in "Wondering Free" does absolutely nothing. You can dig mine and bash through it in any direction. However the downward one way walls in "Mission Impossible" DO prevent you from bashing or mining through them

[mobius]

(ccexplore) Sometimes when you scroll around the level, you may cause a lemming to somehow pass through a blocker.  Exact circumstances still unclear (only happened twice to me so far). I think for this to happen, the level can't be paused when you are scrolling, but I'm not sure.  I've also encountered one time where this happens merely when I fast-forwarded the game for a bit, without any scrolling.

I've now experienced this (three times actually). I believe what I posted a while ago that happened to me on "Under and Up" was this as well. But today I experienced it again, in 'My Finest moment'. (see attachment) I was digging down and the lemming were stuck in a tunnel and I scrolled  to the left and all of a sudden I noticed one lemming moving where it shouldn't, and as you can see it became stuck in the terrain. What is truly bizarre is how did he get around the giant gap in the terrain? Apparently there moving in a way completely different from normal. Also [it may] have something to do with your cursor. Because I think my cursor was over the lemming when it happened and I was scrolling while my cursor was highlighting the lemming. Maybe this is what triggers it.
It also happened to me on 'turn on, tune in, switch on. where lemming went past a blocker (I don't think my cursor was over it that time though http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />)


-Time Doors-
On "Lock In" If two lemmings are squished together and pass the time door it can go from 10 or 9 directly to 0. I have to investigate more.

-(see attachment) Some of the steel in "The Abyss" and It's repeated level "Let's get those finger's moving"  does not behave like steel. The steel on the left (from the entrance) and the steel near the exit on "Let's Get..." is normal. However the steel on all the lower platforms behaves just like regular terrain and can be mined through and blown through. This is the only level I've encountered this so far.
((the level in the picture is actually NOT 'the abyss' it's "Let's get those finger's moving"))
pretty sure this is a level specific glitch, as it happens nowhere else that I've encountered yet.

I've done some more with mining under water. I wasn't sure if you already knew this but by building on top of water you can have a digger dig on the steps so that he continues digging into the water! Then, underwater he can even bash and build.

[ccexplore]

What is truly bizarre is how did he get around the giant gap in the terrain? Apparently there moving in a way completely different from normal.

Hmm, I guess it's possible.  I didn't happen to see a lemming skipping across a giant gap in the terrain myself since in all cases where I had it happen, it was simply a crowd blocked off with a blocker, and then at some point a lemming got past the blocker anyway.  The theory that the lemming instantaneously changed its position from point A to point B would in fact explain both "passing" (really "skipping", if it's such a change in position) the blocker and skipping across a giant gap.

I've done some more with mining under water. I wasn't sure if you already knew this but by building on top of water you can have a digger dig on the steps so that he continues digging into the water! Then, underwater he can even bash and build.

I'm aware of it, not sure if I explicitly mentioned it in my list of glitches.  Basically the game has a check that prevents you from assigning most skills if the lemming is not standing on top of terrain.  However once the skill is active, it doesn't necessarily require real terrain to continue, as we see with the underwater digging/mining/bashing glitches.

[mobius]

it happened to me again in the same level in the same situation!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />
This time, 1 lemming somehow came out of the diggers tunnel except this time, he fell through the gap and died on the ground. It happened when I was looking at the other side of the level and I heard the splat. [so I don't know exactly what happened or what it looked like but this is pretty much the only possible answer]
So, subsequently what I said above is probably wrong about hovering the mouse over the lemming.

Since it was only 1 that "shifted" (a good a term as any) I solved the level anyway since 49/50 is required.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />