The reverse levels challenge thread

[ccexplore]

I've confirmed so far for Flurry that all but 8, 13 and 16 are possible

Got reverse Flurry 16 to work with original skillset via sliding glitch (plus other tricky bits).

[Clam]

Well this was absurdly difficult, but here's Taxing 1 with the original skillset. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

reverse Blitz 10 can be done pretty conventionally with the original skillset, even for either exit.

[ccexplore]

Well this was absurdly difficult

Nice one.  Yeah it can get quite tedious when you have to save almost everyone and need absolutely perfect timing.  On some of my recent solutions on other challenges like Mayhem 2 100% builders-only and Taxing 27 lose 3 no bombers, it got to the point where I even tracked the amount of time spent shrugging (thank you text replays). http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />  Also, I'm guessing somewhere along the way you made the mistake of not offsetting the leader by one pixel from the compressed crowd (a great and annoying example of update ordering effects that Simon wrote an essay on)?

[ccexplore]

I managed it with +1 climber, thanks to a trick that I don't think has been mentioned in the glitches/tricks threads (and tbh I don't know which one it belongs in).

I think it has to be considered a glitch, because the reason it works is basically the same reason for the miner glitch.  The expected effective coordinates for the movements during one mining stroke should logically be

from (x,y) to (x+2,y+1) and to (x+4,y+2)   [R]
[+y goes down, x doesn't matter which direction is +]

but with the glitch, it is actually

(x,y+1) -> (x+2,y+2) -> (x+4,y+2)   [W]

In particular, the other miner quirk about being able to skip one-pixel-wide gaps do not apply here, since trigger areas in PC Lemmings always have a minimize size of 4x4.  If the miner's positioning were to behave logically like in [R], then I don't think the trick would've been possible.

[Clam]

Also, I'm guessing somewhere along the way you made the mistake of not offsetting the leader by one pixel from the compressed crowd?

No, that part just happened to work out, and I knew to change the shrugging time if it didn't (and since you have to turn that lemming with a builder, it just comes down to odd/even timing anyway). The real difficulty was finding the solution method in the first place, going through all the various ways of turning around at the start, how to merge enough lemmings, getting past the staircase, possible sliding setups, etc, all with a limited (and varied) set of skills, and compounded by Simon's other essay topic, the time limit. I'd already made a few failed attempts when I posted http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=576.msg12116#msg12116" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">some other Taxing results yesterday, and gave up on it for a while.

Shrugging time is actually rather useful, it might even warrant a mention in the tricks thread.

[Clam]

I worked on Hail a little bit.  In addition to 4, 5 and 9 that Finlay already mentioned, the following levels have been confirmed possible with original skillset:

1, 7, 8, 10, 11, 15

Hah, I had a go at Hail 10 myself, before seeing your replay, and ended up with a completely different solution. Whereas you went for the close exit, I took the low route all the way to the left exit. The middle exit turns out to be reachable as well http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> (replays attached for both).


edit: Go ahead and mark Hail 3 and 14 as possible, no surprises there.

[Minim]

As promised, I did some Frost levels, and came up with some results. All the odd numbers except for 9 and 15 were possible. I also solved 14 using the high route (i.e. walking over the other 9).
Here are the ones that needed additional skills

2: 2 skills. Done with two extra builders.
4: 14 skills. This was a tough level which I might have to have another go at.
6: 13 skills. Took the high road on this level.
9: 4 skills. Done with 4 extra builders.
12: 5 skills. I've taken advantage of the steel-cancelling glitch on this level!
15: 3 skills. Added 1 blocker and 2 builders and it wasn't too bad.
16: 2 skills. Needed 2 more builders to get up to the exit platform.

The ones that I am totally stuck on are 8 and 10. I'm not sure if either of these levels are considered possible due to lack of time.

[ccexplore]

Reverse Mayhem 21 possible with original skillset via sliding glitch again.

Also, reverse Mayhem 20 can be done with just +1 blocker very easily.

[finlay]

I just managed Mayhem 20 too now that you've told me what to add. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

Reverse Hail 12 with +1 climber, +1 basher and +1 digger.  Another slide-based solution.

[edit: and +2 for Reverse Hail 13, no surprises there]

[ccexplore]

Reverse Frost 12 can be done pretty easily with +1 blocker, +1 builder, taking advantage of the missing steel at the top.

[ccexplore]

Nothing spectacular, but here's +3 builders as a start for solving Reverse Crazy 18, just to get rid of that silly asterisk on the table.

[edit: also ridding reverse Havoc 17 of its asterisk, with +1 climber, +3 builders, +1 basher as a start]

[ccexplore]

Reverse Havoc 11 with original skillset.

[ccexplore]

Reverse Frost 8 with original skillset.  This requires the pause trick, so to verify it in Lemmix, change the time limit to 2 minutes and see that 93% is reached before the timer reads 0:58.