New unofficial online Lemmings game...

[ccexplore]

If you ever decide to add Oh No More Lemmings levels as well, there's one level where the left "wall" actually comes into play, but you can deal with that later if need be.

Are you thinking of Crazy 18?  It's true that people playing that level will likely run into the edge effect on that level due to its design, but I've checked and the level is certainly solvable without relying on it.  So even for that level it is not absolutely necessary to implement turnaround edge effects.  Or you can add some extra terrain to provide similar behavior.

[bombsite]

However, Clam's thinking is of the DOS version's concept of level boundaries, where the level area has a constant size (about 1580x160 in DOS) even if most levels don't make full use of the entire area, and edge effects only come into play at the edges of the full 1580-pixel width.

So do Lemmings still fall when they get to 1580 pixels across, or do they just fall off the visible edge of the level?

Just look at the picture below and you'll see.

 http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> I don't think I've ever been so entertained by a lemmings screenshot, especially with your funny comments! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" /> Thanks for making my day. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

I thought I'd make the game a bit easier by allowing you to bash your way through entire levels!!

[DragonsLover]

Just look at the picture below and you'll see.

 http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> I don't think I've ever been so entertained by a lemmings screenshot, especially with your funny comments! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" /> Thanks for making my day. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

Hahaha! My pleasure! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

[Clam]

Are you thinking of Crazy 18?

Yep, that's the one. There's also Fun 23 / Taxing 17 in original Lemmings, where you could reasonably reach the edges of the level. Like ccexplore says, if you want to make the lemmings turn around at the edge, you could put a wall there, but by default you could just make them disappear off the level.

Keep in mind that there are some levels where in DOS you can get to the exit by building out beyond the end of the terrain, using a blocker, and building back the other way, like Tricky 3 and Tricky 8. If you cut off the level right where the terrain ends, you're limiting the possible solutions to these levels. Granted, these aren't the "normal" solutions to these levels, but half the fun of Lemmings is solving levels in different ways. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

There's also the top of the level to consider. In DOS, this acts as a solid wall, but again it might make more sense to just kill lemmings that go off the top. However, some levels (eg. Mayhem 23) will play differently if you change this, so it might be best to leave it as a solid wall. Like Crazy 18, the free wall can help, but it's not absolutely necessary.

[Simon]

There's also the top of the level to consider. In DOS, this acts as a solid wall

Hmm, builders get cancelled by the ceiling, but then continue to walk forward instead of turning around.

And bashing partly through the ceiling writes garbage into memory. :]

-- Simon

[bombsite]

In Fun 5 - 'You need bashers this time' - How is bashing through the 'netting' supposed to work?  In the Windows version they seem to just stop bashing when there's nothing directly beneath them, and in Lemmix they seem to move down slightly whilst still bashing if there's nothing directly beneath them and then stop bashing shortly afterwards.  Do they bash if there's something in front of them at any height, or is it only if there's something above a certain point?

[finlay]

Are you thinking of Crazy 18?

Yep, that's the one. There's also Fun 23 / Taxing 17 in original Lemmings, where you could reasonably reach the edges of the level. Like ccexplore says, if you want to make the lemmings turn around at the edge, you could put a wall there, but by default you could just make them disappear off the level.

Keep in mind that there are some levels where in DOS you can get to the exit by building out beyond the end of the terrain, using a blocker, and building back the other way, like Tricky 3 and Tricky 8. If you cut off the level right where the terrain ends, you're limiting the possible solutions to these levels. Granted, these aren't the "normal" solutions to these levels, but half the fun of Lemmings is solving levels in different ways. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

There's also the top of the level to consider. In DOS, this acts as a solid wall, but again it might make more sense to just kill lemmings that go off the top. However, some levels (eg. Mayhem 23) will play differently if you change this, so it might be best to leave it as a solid wall. Like Crazy 18, the free wall can help, but it's not absolutely necessary.

On the PSX version, and as far as I know, the Windows version, the Lemmings don't get turned around by the ceiling; they will start to walk over it. If you build up to the ceiling, it can start to remove your steps, which can potentially get annoying. But Mayhem 23 is a good example of a level that becomes very difficult at the start, and one has to use two diggers at the start of "Mind the Step" so that the lemming ends up facing the left. You'd think you could just build up to the ceiling on the left of the entrance for a quick backroute, but as I say, I think they attempted to close that loophole by not letting you build higher than a certain height. It's annoying, that whole thing...

[ccexplore]

In Fun 5 - 'You need bashers this time' - How is bashing through the 'netting' supposed to work?  In the Windows version they seem to just stop bashing when there's nothing directly beneath them, and in Lemmix they seem to move down slightly whilst still bashing if there's nothing directly beneath them and then stop bashing shortly afterwards.  Do they bash if there's something in front of them at any height, or is it only if there's something above a certain point?

Well, the exact way it works is something like this:
  1) When lemming is at (x, y) with y being the pixel immediately underneath its feet (ie. the pixel lemming is standing on), immediately after carrying out the bash stroke, it checks only the four pixels (x+8, y-6), (x+9, y-6), (x+10, y-6), (x+11, y-6) for terrain, and only on every other stroke (1st, 3rd, ...)*.  y-6 means 6 pixels up, and x+8 means 8 pixels horizontally away to whichever direction the lemming is facing.  If at least one of the 4 pixels are terrain, then bashing continues after a short bit of moving forward, otherwise basher stops now and transitions to faller.  It's of note that horizontally, DOS Lemming's bash stroke reaches up to x+7 horizontally, so essentially it is a check of having more terrain just immediately beyond what has been bashed.
  2) The basher moves ahead 5 pixels horizontally before the next bash stroke.  While moving ahead, whenever the ground drops by up to 2 pixels, lemming will simply drop with the terrain but otherwise continue on, otherwise it stops bashing and transitions to falling.

*more likely a bug in the programming rather than intentional behavior.  Some versions like the Mac actually checks on every stroke as expected.

So in short answer, whether they continue or stop bashing is based only on having terrain just immediately beyond the current end of the bash tunnel, and only at a specific height.  Also there's a slight tolerance to dropping that will not interrupt the bashing.

I think the basic concept behind it is that the lemming has to be a little bit beneath ground level, or having a true wall ahead, to be able to continue to bash, ie., they decide it's a little ridiculous if you can do something like dig down merely 1 or 2 pixels on flat ground and then be able to bash on without stopping.  That's not to say the actual algorithm will produce logical results in every case, but for the most part it produces reasonable behavior.

The netting terrain in Lemmings seems to be not quite dense enough to support continual bashing with the DOS algorithm, but even if it were dense enough, you would not expect a perfectly horizontal tunnel as a result either, due to the fall tolerance behavior.

[bombsite]

Bashing has now been improved as per detailed info from ccexplore, and also DragonsLover's screenshot of the 'super basher'  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />  (it still needs a small bit of 'tweaking' though to get it exactly right).

Also, you can now select task types by pressing the keys 1-8 (top row, not numeric keypad).

[Gronkling]

I can't seem to get bashers to work at all now, I can't even assign them. Miners also make the game freeze for me.
Fast forward feels too slow as well but that's just me being impatient.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

[Simon]

Nan nan nan, it still locks all levels besides the first one. Rabble rabble rabble. This is a good estimate of how I feel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fEjJ4Ecy9Q" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.dontfeedthewriter.com/katamari/wlk_cousins/fujio.gif" alt="" class="bbc_img" />
 
-- Simon

[bombsite]

I can't seem to get bashers to work at all now, I can't even assign them. Miners also make the game freeze for me.
Fast forward feels too slow as well but that's just me being impatient.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

Bashers and miners seem to be working OK for me.  Is there are particular level where they're not working?  What browser are you using?

Re fast-forward, I was thinking of speeding that up - maybe I could add variable fast-forward speeds?

Nan nan nan, it still locks all levels besides the first one. Rabble rabble rabble.

Simon, you can call off the angry mob now - all levels are now unlocked!

[Gronkling]

I can't seem to get bashers to work at all now, I can't even assign them. Miners also make the game freeze for me.
Fast forward feels too slow as well but that's just me being impatient.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

Bashers and miners seem to be working OK for me.  Is there are particular level where they're not working?  What browser are you using?

Re fast-forward, I was thinking of speeding that up - maybe I could add variable fast-forward speeds?

All the levels don't work and I'm forced to use (an up to date) Internet Explorer because all other internet browsers don't work on my computer.
Also a variable fastforward would be nice.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

[bombsite]

Note to self: Test in Internet Explorer more often!  Thanks for letting me know it wasn't working Gronkling - it's now fixed!

I'm going to look into the best way to implement a variable-speed fast forward.

[Simon]

Thanks for opening all levels. Did some more playtesting with skill interaction.

Most stuff from my first post to this topic still holds. Diggers now remove 1 row of low-res pixels too much all the time. This leads to gaps like this:

http://i.imgur.com/Wdhgt.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

Digger tunnels are 1 low-res pixel too narrow, correct is 9 low-res pixels of width. They should remove 1 more low-res pixel to the left side of the tunnel.

-- Simon