Lemmings achievements

[finlay]

Just finished Genesis Lemmings in full for the first time. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

And discovered what I think is a backroute for Present 30 (which you probably know already http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />) and a spelling mistake in the screen that comes after Mayhem 30. both attached.

How about you? Completed any Lemmings games recently? Challenges?

[ccexplore]

I haven't played Lemmings much in recent days.  I did play through a few more Lemmings 3 levels 2 days ago, but I'm not even halfway done with that game yet.

Stuff I considered achievements happen long long time ago, but I'm still proud of them:

1) 100% solution to Taxing 16 ("Mary Poppins' Land")
2) lose-1 solution to Tricky 23 ("From the Boundary Line")
3) 100% solution to Wicked 6 ("Pop Till You Drop!")
4) 17/23 solution to Havoc 10 ("Flow Control")

I've of course done many more challenges since, but I guess I tend to remember the above the most because they were done at a time before Lemmix is widely available.

And I suppose it was pretty satisfying on that day I finally solved level 6 from tseug's levelpak.

[ccexplore]

Actually, I remember one more fun accomplishment from the days of yore.  It was when I solved namida's Oblivion level (the Cheapo version) saving 100% (or something very close to that) and using no blockers.  It even inspired me to create a Cheapo level, "After the Rainstorm", that explicitly requires the concepts I gleaned from solving the level that way.

[ccexplore]

I've of course done many more challenges since, but I guess I tend to remember the above the most because they were done at a time before Lemmix is widely available.

Actually, now I think back, another major reason was that those accomplishments were done at a time *before* I disassembled the game's programming.  I know it may seem like I've figured out the game's programming from the day I was born or something, but actually it happened much much later.  I did work out the DAT file compression format from the game programming fairly early on, but that was easy because I know what all DOS programs have to do to talk to DOS for file operations, so it's easy to look for the relevant machine code fragment from the sea of thousands of bytes.  Whereas it was not very feasible to do the same for the mechanics of lemmings movement, until a chance thread with Mike, one of the programmers involved, revealed a magic number 60, through which I was then able to do a search in the machine code leading me to the first decipherable fragments of machine code for the game mechanics, and the rest (ultimately leading to the ability to make Lemmix emulate DOS Lemmings precisely) eventually all fell into place.

The 4 accomplishments mentioned above happen well before I started deciphering the game's programming for movement of lemmings.  Actually 2-3 of them don't even have any use of glitches, and the ones that do, I work out the glitches purely through power of very careful observation (a dose of good thinking and luck also helped of course).

[Clam]

Sadly, most of the great "achievements" had already been done by the time I found the forums. But still, across all the challenge threads on this forum, there have been a few solutions that I'm particularly proud of:

Fun 29 in 1 minute (IIRC it was this one that earned me the nickname "Master Slider ClamSpammer" http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />)
Tricky 28 with builders only (optionally add climbers for 100%)
Mayhem 1 least skills (featuring complicated releaserate changes on every lemming)
Mayhem 2 with one worker lemming (what an effort just to save one more lemming!)
Mayhem 14 in 1 minute (going through the bowl)
Mayhem 18 in 1 minute (glitches galore)
Mayhem 21 without using all the floaters (extreme precision needed)
Tame 1 & 17 with builders only (yes, builders!)

But above all these IMHO is the direct route through the steel on Mayhem 12. In finding this solution, not only did I rediscover a glitch that was barely known (and AFAIK never used in a solution - though it's turned out to be useful elsewhere too http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />), but I also found a quirk in the placement of the object trigger areas, that helps you out in this level (and absolutely nowhere else http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />). Combined with pausing for time and the nuke glitch, I got the solution time for this level down to a very satisfying 10 seconds. Everything just falls into place so nicely, it's almost as if the developers intended it to happen... http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" />

[DragonsLover]

Don't you have videos (not Lemmix replays) for ALL these challenges? Would be a blast to show them on YouTube imho.

Anyway, you have my respect for doing all of these challenges. I don't think I'd have the patience to at least try just one. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" />

[finlay]

the direct route through the steel

wat

why do you guys have to be so cryptic about glitches all the time? I mean it's not like I'm going to be able to find them on my own – I prefer a more "traditional" style of gameplay anyway... http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />

[Adam]

the direct route through the steel

wat

why do you guys have to be so cryptic about glitches all the time? I mean it's not like I'm going to be able to find them on my own – I prefer a more "traditional" style of gameplay anyway... http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />

This!

[ccexplore]

the direct route through the steel

wat

why do you guys have to be so cryptic about glitches all the time? I mean it's not like I'm going to be able to find them on my own – I prefer a more "traditional" style of gameplay anyway... http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />

 http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> It is pretty much exactly how you read it.  Glitches by nature tend to require very specific moves to execute, so providing more details likely only serve further to confuse, except in case of a video, or a replay (and hey, you don't use Lemmix http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />).  Also, some glitches can be version-specific for obvious reasons.  In this case I really don't know at this point whether the glitch solution to Mayhem 12 works on any other versions besides PC (I guess it won't be too hard to test it out though).

Basically imagine a glitch that allows you to use diggers in a very specific way in that level to slightly eat into the steel wall, then thanks to another glitch with the placement of the exit object, you can simply bash through the rest, creating a direct path from entrance to exit.  Or you can search for the relevant posts in one of the challenge threads or glitch threads.  Honestly, it's hardly a secret.

Finally, I'd like to emphasize that there are tons of challenge solutions that have nothing to do with glitches.

I mean it's not like I'm going to be able to find them on my own

Note that the glitches related to the direct-route Mayhem 12 solution was actually first discovered by ClamSpammer without any help from me.  Just because I know every line of code for the mechanics of Lemming doesn't necessarily translate to me being able to spot every unusual combination of moves and circumstances that result in glitch behavior.  After all, if it's obviously wrong and easily executable, they would've fixed it already before the game was out!

Thus while it's true that maybe you won't be able to find them on your own, it's not because you can't disassemble the game's programming. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" /> Disassembling the game's programming does help explain after-the-fact the details of a glitch and work out all the necessary conditions to trigger it, but when it comes to discovery of one in the first place, often they are discovered by people as far removed from computer programming as someone like DragonsLover for example.

I prefer a more "traditional" style of gameplay anyway... http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />

Despite all appearances to the contrary, I think we all appreciate styles of gameplay that emphasize logic over "specialty knowledge" like glitches.  On the other hand, you have to admit when a glitch works out, you do get some logic-defying results that can be kind of hard to look away. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

Incidentally, the right-click bug thread that I alluded to is a perfect example of a typical glitch lifecycle and how it plays out:

- discovery by someone other than me with no knowledge of the game's programming (DragonsLover)
- recordings created by others so everyone can see what the fuss is about (what I said about "can't look away")
- with benefit from deciphering the game's programming, comes deeper understanding of how the glitch comes about and how to trigger it (yours truly, final post on that thread)
- more recordings of WTF resulting from usage of glitch (again, can't look away!  see attachment on final post of thread)

About the only thing missing is actually applying the glitch in an actual level for fun and profit. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" /> (Then again, that particular glitch really isn't very suited to applications.)

[DragonsLover]

I agree with Adan and finlay. I generally like to play in a "traditional" way. But glitches are still impressive in action and could be helpful for a speedrun. Talking of that, does somebody ever managed to do a speedrun of Lemmings? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

Disassembling the game's programming does help explain after-the-fact the details of a glitch and work out all the necessary conditions to trigger it, but when it comes to discovery of one in the first place, often they are discovered by people as far removed from computer programming as someone like DragonsLover for example.

- discovery by someone other than me with no knowledge of the game's programming (DragonsLover)

Hey, I'm not that far removed from computer programming as I'm a programmer myself. Perhaps not a professional programmer, but I can do basic stuff. I touched to C, C++, C#, Java and VisualBasic (but it's been a while for that one). I even played into the assembly code once. However, it's true that I have no knowledge of the game's programming, but I have a basic idea.

EDIT: Nooooo, you posted while I was posting and you left before you read it, with a difference of few minutes. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

Hey, I'm not that far removed from computer programming as I'm a programmer myself. [...]

Okay, sorry for the confusion, fair enough.  But the point remains, that glitch discovery is not a case of "read it out from the game's programming".  The best glitches tend to come by totally by luck, when you weren't even explicitly looking for any.

Power of observation.  That is a very useful skill to build up, not just for glitches and not just for Lemmings.

[Simon]

The right-click glitch is actually resourceful and powerful, it even won geoo the head-to-head speedrun when he was over here.

Because I fricken triggered the fricken thing accidentally nan nan nan rodent rodent rodent.

-- Simon

[Clam]

Hello, flurry of posts! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" /> http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

Don't you have videos (not Lemmix replays) for ALL these challenges? Would be a blast to show them on YouTube imho.

I don't have a Youtube account. I haven't really considered getting one. Maybe I should. *shrugs*

wat

why do you guys have to be so cryptic about glitches all the time? I mean it's not like I'm going to be able to find them on my own – I prefer a more "traditional" style of gameplay anyway... http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />

I'm not being cryptic, I'm just trying to summarise that solution briefly so I don't end up posting a wall of text. The details are well documented http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=34.msg1337#msg1337" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">on this forum. (OMG, it's post #1337. That is TOO perfect.)

On that note, I have thought about restarting the glitch thread when I get a moment, and doing it properly this time (i.e. update the first post on occasion http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />).

I agree with Adan and finlay. I generally like to play in a "traditional" way. But glitches are still impressive in action and could be helpful for a speedrun. Talking of that, does somebody ever managed to do a speedrun of Lemmings? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

I did "speedrun" some levels, in this thread. (Technically it's more like a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool-assisted_speedrun" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Tool-Assisted Speedrun, but that's another matter.) That thread was a disastrous mess though, and we never did figure out exactly how much time the game actually gives you, so I never got very far. I did do about 50 levels, but this includes completely trivial ones like Fun 2 http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />.

And while I certainly appreciate "traditional" play, I'd say I probably favour glitch solutions, to a greater extent than most people here anyway. That might be partly because most of my "famous" works result from abusing glitches (the sliding one in particular), whereas traditional methods were mostly exhausted by the time I got here.

[LemSteven]

These are some of the best achievements that I remember pulling off:

1: Taxing 6 100%
2: Mayhem 29 Lose 2
3: Havoc 16 100% (glitch-free!)
4: Wild 9 no-skill nuke glitch solution
5: Taxing 15 no builders, 100%
6: Fun 16 with 4 builders only

Despite the pixel-precision required in several of these solutions (most notably Mayhem 29), I actually prefer puzzles that are tough to figure out, but easy to execute once you know how to do them.