Unrepeated levels..

Adam · April 22, 2011, 10:28:56 PM

Okay, this is a VERY rough idea at the moment which may have been done in the past, but I think it could have legs with the right tailoring.

In the Original version of Lemmings, there were quite a few levels (about 35, I think) which had no repeats. Most of them were from the harder two difficulties, but there were a few easier levels which didn't have a repeat. I suggest trying to create repeats of these levels which either increase difficulty, or completely change its solution. Of course, some levels will be harder to do than others, but still, I like a challenge.

Take a running jump, And then there were four, and Tailor-made for blockers instantly spring to mind for me, but, of course, there are loads to pick from.

So, what do you think? Good idea? Bad idea? "Shut up, Adam!"?

ccexplore · April 22, 2011, 11:12:33 PM

Well, good or bad, let's start off with the list of no-repeat levels:

Fun 3: Tailor-made for blockers
Fun 22: A Beast of a level

Tricky 1: This should be a doddle!
Tricky 14: Menacing!
Tricky 20: One way digging to freedom
Tricky 21: All the 6's
Tricky 23: Tightrope City
Tricky 25: Cascade
Tricky 27: The Island of the Wicker people
Tricky 28: Lost something?
Tricky 29: Rainbow Island

Taxing 2: Watch out, there's traps about
Taxing 4: Lend a helping hand...
Taxing 5: The Prison!
Taxing 12: Livin' On The Edge
Taxing 13: Upsidedown World
Taxing 14: Hunt the Nessy...
Taxing 15: What an AWESOME level
Taxing 16: Mary Poppins' Land
Taxing 20: Walk the web rope
Taxing 21: Feel the heat!
Taxing 24: Take a running jump......
Taxing 26: Triple Trouble
Taxing 27: Call in the bomb squad
Taxing 28: POOR WEE CREATURES!

Mayhem 1: Steel Works
Mayhem 2: The Boiler Room
Mayhem 8: Last one out is a rotten egg!
Mayhem 10: Pillars of Hercules
Mayhem 12: The Far Side
Mayhem 14: Pea Soup
Mayhem 16: Just a Minute...
Mayhem 17: Stepping Stones
Mayhem 18: And then there were four......
Mayhem 22: A BeastII of a level
Mayhem 23: Going up......
Mayhem 27: Just a Minute (Part Two)
Mayhem 28: Mind the Step......
Mayhem 29: Save Me
Mayhem 30: Rendezvez at the Mountain

ccexplore · April 22, 2011, 11:21:48 PM

Here's a repeat for "Tailor-made for blockers" that I can see happening (somewhat) in the actual game, geared towards somewhere between late Tricky and early Taxing I think. Conceptually it's a tad obvious I'll admit.

RR: still 50
number to save: 40 (maybe higher esp. for Taxing)
time limit: still 5 minutes (maybe lower esp. for Taxing)
skills: 10 of everything except blockers, which you have zero (maybe less skills esp. for Taxing)

Feel free to chime in with a title. I'd suggest not mention blockers at all and go for a more "random title" approach, just like most of the official levels.

Clam · April 23, 2011, 12:40:02 AM

Initially when I saw this, I thought repeats of original levels were already a well-worn path when it comes to custom levels, but now I've seen the list, there are a lot of levels here that I've never seen in a custom levelpack. So yes, I'd say this certainly is a good idea.

For a lot of these levels, the obvious choice would be to restrict builders to a minimum and make the player use other skills to compensate for this, reminiscent of the "skills you can't live without" challenge. Actually, now I mention that, the challenge threads would be a great place to look for ideas

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

Adam · April 23, 2011, 01:16:10 AM

I'm not familiar with Lemmix replays, but I've tried ccexlore's Tailor-Made challenge..

Mod Edit: Restored attachments.

finlay · April 23, 2011, 01:40:46 AM

ftp://ftp.worldofspectrum.org/pub/sinclair/games-maps/l/Lemmings_2.png" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">The Sinclair version of Lemmings has an endgame repeat of Tailor-made with a small number of skills... take a look for yourself.

Adam · April 23, 2011, 01:55:04 AM

Indeed, it does! However, the thickness of the beams is greater in the Sinclair version, meaning the solution is (as far as I know) exclusive to that platform!

ccexplore · April 23, 2011, 07:33:37 AM

Actually, I got pretty close to solving the Sinclair TMFB repeat using the PC version of the level, but ultimately it's just 1 skill shy (or alternatively 1 lemming short) of a working solution.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" /> I've attached level and almost-but-fail solution replay.

Since the gaps in the Sinclair version looks narrower, I think my solution might have worked fine there, but then again the thicker platforms there also probably means there are easier ways to solve it anyhow.

ccexplore · April 23, 2011, 08:17:31 AM

Here's a hard version of Tricky 1. Maybe a little too tricky for Mayhem?

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> You decide. Actually there are probably a few variations for solving the level, and the save % purposely has a little slack. I do have one particular solution in mind, but other solutions aren't necessarily backroutes unless much easier.

[new stats for level:

RR: still 50
lemmings out/save: 80/75
time limit: still 4
skills: 3 bombers, 3 blockers, 2 builders, 3 miners]

Adam · April 23, 2011, 04:14:15 PM

I'm not sure if this is a backroute, but here's how I did it..

ccexplore · April 24, 2011, 01:51:56 AM

Eh, close enough. For reference here's the solution I have in mind.

Clam · April 24, 2011, 03:50:25 AM

For "Tightrope City", you could remove all the skills except two builders, and add a bunch of miners and bashers. (I'm not at my Lemmings PC right now, so I have no idea how many you'd need). Leave the number of lemmings, release rate (ok, maybe slow it a little) and time limit the same.

Also, could we consider "Just a minute (Part Two)" as a repeat? Otherwise we're gonna end up with four near-identical levels.

ccexplore · April 25, 2011, 02:10:38 AM

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=478.msg10362#msg10362">Quote from: Clam Spammer on 2011-04-23 21:50:25

Also, could we consider "Just a minute (Part Two)" as a repeat? Otherwise we're gonna end up with four near-identical levels.

I kinda doubt we'll actually get a new level out of all 40 on the list anyway, even without that level. Like Taxing 14, I guess you can reduce the number of builders, but you still end up more or less with something not too different from the original.

I'll leave both in the list and let people pick one or the other to create a repeat with. It could also be an interesting challenge to see if someone can come up with a repeat of Part 1 whose solution is substantially different from the standard ones for Part 1 or Part 2, and do not allow a solution that would also work with Part 2's terrain.

ccexplore · April 25, 2011, 02:46:08 AM

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=478.msg10364#msg10364">Quote from: ccexplore on 2011-04-24 20:10:38

It could also be an interesting challenge to see if someone can come up with a repeat of Part 1 whose solution is substantially different from the standard ones for Part 1 or Part 2, and do not allow a solution that would also work with Part 2's terrain.

Ok, that was not too hard. Attached is a repeat for Just a Minute Part 1 that cannot be solved with the terrain from Part 2:

Time Limit: 2
Lemmings out/save: still 50/50
RR: 99
skills: 2 climbers, 1 floater, 2 miners, 1 digger

Clam · April 25, 2011, 10:37:44 PM

I've fleshed out my idea for Tricky 24 to make it playable, without being too tiresome, and with an opportunity to go for 100% with good execution. Turns out I wasn't even close with the RR

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> (ended up turning it all the way down to 40).

New level stats:
2 minutes
Save 75 of 80 (same as before)
RR 40
2 builders, 20 bashers, 20 miners