Lemmings 1 music problem in DOSBox

Scott5114 · February 26, 2011, 06:00:04 AM

I'm having a bothersome issue with the music on the original Lemmings in DOSBox. When I play the second level in a session, the game will correctly play the second music track the first time. However, if I fail the level (whether by ESCing/nuking, or running out of time, or failing to meet the percentage requirements) when I replay it, the music goes back to the "Canon in D" variant (track #1) until I pass the level. Then it will resume with the third music track, again on the first play-through, going back to the Canon whenever I fail the level.

I'm sure someone here knows exactly what I'm talking about, as I've seen it happen on L1 Let's Play videos on YouTube, so it's not just me. My question is, is there some sort of setting in DOSBox I can twiddle that will fix it, or is it just a DOSBox bug that I can't do anything about? (If it's a DOSBox bug, is there someone that knows enough about the way music selection was done in L1 that could help explain what's wrong in DOSBox so that we could submit a comprehensible bug report?)

I'm playing through Mayhem for the first time so I'm sure if this is unfixable I will be hearing a lot of Canon in D!

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Thanks in advance for the help!

Minim · February 26, 2011, 06:43:14 AM

I haven't seen you yet so Welcome to the forum!

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

I think this is a bug which cannot be helped, and I do remember having this occasion most of the time while I was playing DOS original lemmings. I don't know how this bug can be helped I'm afraid no matter which level you're playing.

Simon · February 26, 2011, 06:56:21 AM

ccexplore has made patched versions of the executable to remedy this problem. IIRC they are on the Lemmings File Archive, but that one is a bit elusive currently. I'm sure he'll post the patched exes here anyway soon. :-]

Edit: Attached it to my next post.

-- Simon

finlay · February 26, 2011, 02:58:29 PM

That tune is from Canon in D???

Scott5114 · February 27, 2011, 03:31:30 AM

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=458.msg10026#msg10026">Quote from: minimac on 2011-02-26 00:43:14

I haven't seen you yet so Welcome to the forum! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

Thanks for the warm welcome! I've been a Lemmings fan since I was 4, but only got the motivation to finally beat it when I realized its 20th anniversary was coming up... I learned to write by copying the Lemmings font! (which meant my capital Q's were a bit weird...

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />)

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=458.msg10027#msg10027">Quote from: Simon on 2011-02-26 00:56:21

ccexplore has made patched versions of the executable to remedy this problem. IIRC they are on the Lemmings File Archive, but that one is a bit elusive currently. I'm sure he'll post the patched exes here anyway soon. :-]

Great! Looking forward to it.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=458.msg10028#msg10028">Quote from: finlay on 2011-02-26 08:58:29

That tune is from Canon in D???

I'm not 100% sure but I've heard the Canon in D connection bandied about. If you listen to the two songs you can sort of hear one in the other if you listen carefully. It's definitely more subtle than, say, Rondo Alla Turca or Dance of the Little Swans.

Simon · February 27, 2011, 01:00:31 PM

Here it is.

-- Simon

ccexplore · February 27, 2011, 04:09:48 PM

Oh good, save me the work of digging it up on my own computer.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

By the way, the music problem is not a DOSBox bug, but a bug in the game itself.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=458.msg10029#msg10029">Quote from: Scott5114 on 2011-02-26 21:31:30

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=458.msg10028#msg10028">Quote from: finlay on 2011-02-26 08:58:29
That tune is from Canon in D???

I'm not 100% sure but I've heard the Canon in D connection bandied about. If you listen to the two songs you can sort of hear one in the other if you listen carefully.

Basically it uses the same chord progression (or in more modern parlance, the same bass line) as the Canon in D, but the melody is pretty much brand new.

Scott5114 · February 27, 2011, 05:42:25 PM

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=458.msg10031#msg10031">Quote from: Simon on 2011-02-27 07:00:31

Here it is.

-- Simon

Thanks a bunch!

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> I'm using the #3 fix. Always used to bother me when I'd use a code to jump ahead to a particular level and it'd have the "wrong" music....

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=458.msg10032#msg10032">Quote from: ccexplore on 2011-02-27 10:09:48

Oh good, save me the work of digging it up on my own computer. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

By the way, the music problem is not a DOSBox bug, but a bug in the game itself.

Interesting... I never had that issue when I was playing it in actual DOS, so I assumed there was a discrepancy between the DOSBox API and the true MS-DOS API.

ccexplore · February 27, 2011, 11:35:24 PM

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=458.msg10034#msg10034">Quote from: Scott5114 on 2011-02-27 11:42:25

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=458.msg10032#msg10032">Quote from: ccexplore on 2011-02-27 10:09:48
By the way, the music problem is not a DOSBox bug, but a bug in the game itself.

Interesting... I never had that issue when I was playing it in actual DOS, so I assumed there was a discrepancy between the DOSBox API and the true MS-DOS API.

It's easy to remember little details like that wrong. When was the last time you played the game in actual DOS? Anyway, I know LemSteven still has an old computer where he can play Lemmings on actual DOS, maybe he can confirm whether or not the music problem occurs.

It's also possible that maybe the copy of the game you are now using is different from what you were using before. Some copies of the game has the copy protection removed, it's conceivable you get the music problem as a side effect, though when I changed the game to fix it, I don't remember seeing any connection between the code responsible with any copy protection related stuff.

LemSteven · February 28, 2011, 04:27:15 AM

I don't have the music problem in actual DOS.

Also note that it is installed from of the original copy-protected 3.5-inch floppy, so it very well could be an issue with the hacked version of the game, rather than the hardware.

ccexplore · February 28, 2011, 10:56:28 AM

Oh okay, my bad then. Based on other people mentioning this problem in the forums in distant past, I had an assumption that the game was always like this (and I don't remember far enough back to when I first played the game whether it had the problem or not), but maybe not.

I do own a floppy-disk version of Lemmings with the box, even though it's not a version I've used much. I have previously compared it (at the disassembly level) against the abandonia.com version for general game mechanics and didn't find any differences there, but I definitely did not check for any differences in music handling then. I'll have to do that one of these days. I guess it's possible that even for versions from originally floppy disks, there could still be multiple versions about, some of which have the music problem while others don't.

DoubleU · November 19, 2015, 05:33:53 PM

Hi, I hope I'm not causing problemmings by reviving an old topic.

Anyway, I don't think it's meant to be a bug, any more than the added drop height for the "cracked" version (which also changes the music "problem"). I was under the impression that it was a sort of "punishment", as it were; a way to encourage players to get the level right the first time. "Made a mistake? Well, try to pass the level anyway, and then you won't have to reset the music this time."

Proxima · November 19, 2015, 06:03:12 PM

That's crazy talk

No game developer, especially not after making such a great game as Lemmings, would be that harsh to the player -- they would realise that they'd be hurting their own revenue. Besides, if it were intended, wouldn't it be in all versions?

Simon · November 19, 2015, 09:30:33 PM

Never attribute to malice what could be a bug.

-- Simon

namida · November 19, 2015, 10:02:22 PM

When playing Lemmings for the first time - do note I was very young at this time - I always felt that that first tune in DOS had a bit more of an "encouraging" feel to it, and I thought maybe that's why it went back to that one. Now, of course, it simply being a bug makes much more sense.