ideas

[Nortaneous]

Did this during a plane ride to SF. Probably pretty easy.

[Nortaneous]

I did eiffel.lvl by mining through the center column and bashing through the arch thing.

Anyway, here's a level that I made on the plane ride back from SF. (I think I finished it, but I'm not sure, and I'm on Linux right now so I can't check. Lemmix doesn't seem to like Wine very much.)

[Clam]

I presume this thread is fair game for anyone to post levels, and not just finlay?

I had a bunch of ideas a while ago, but nothing ever came of them. Now I think I know why. These "ideas" of mine were glitches or other tricks that I wanted to build into a level. But, whenever I tried to make a level, I'd either end up with was a demonstration of the trick rather than an actual puzzle, or a puzzle that would be okay but takes way too many pixel-perfect skill placements. I haven't touched these ideas for a while, so hopefully now I can start over with a (relatively) fresh pair of eyes and make some decent puzzles from them.

To start with, here (attached) is one I just thought up, which wasn't actually one of those earlier ideas http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />. But hopefully, this should give you an idea of what I'm going for.

[ccexplore]

Given that you have already released at least 5 full levelsets, I think all this means is that you have already used up a lot of your good ideas, is all. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" /> And yeah, turning single standalone glitches and tricks into full levels can be tough. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />

Anyway, not bad, although with such limited skills, if you have been exposed to the trick before (eg. in one of tseug's levels), it's not too hard to work this out.  Quite a bit of trial and error though (just like in tseug's).

[Clam]

I think all this means is that you have already used up a lot of your good ideas, is all.

Well, creating original levels gets harder with each one that gets released, I guess http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />. That's why I thought of making levels with glitches - some haven't been known for long, so there's still the chance to build original levels around them. I have some ideas (albeit vague), so it's surely worth at least trying to make them into levels.

Quite a bit of trial and error though (just like in tseug's).

Hmm, that's not ideal either. But, like the pixel-precision needed with some glitches, this isn't really avoidable. I'm aware that levels requiring glitches or obscure tricks levels don't appeal to everyone anyway. Just be glad I didn't ramp up the trial and error even further by squeezing you on the time limit. Like tseug's http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

with such limited skills, if you have been exposed to the trick before (eg. in one of tseug's levels), it's not too hard to work this out.

I thought I did a reasonable job of hiding it, actually. I did consider concealing it further by adding a section where you need a lot of digging skills, and you'd find yourself a basher short unless you did the first bit right. But I happened upon another way of diverting the player - speaking of which, here's a question for anyone who's solved the level:

How long did you spend tying to mine through the right side of the level before finding the actual trick?

[Simon]

That's why I thought of making levels with glitches

It may be a trick, but not a glitch. (Works in Lix.)

How long did you spend tying to mine through the right side of the level before finding the actual trick?

2 or 3 times. And I tried to excavate hidden exits twice as well. geoo considered my attempts to be quality middle-night entertainment.

-- Simon

[ccexplore]

I actually thought of the trick almost as soon as I look at the level.  That said, an actual first try or two quickly reminds me of the trial and error it can take, so very soon I purposely decided to take a detour and see:

...if there's a backroute or not, namely as you alluded to, mining at the right side of the level.  Unsurprisingly, that did not work out.  And then I resume to making the trick work.  I have to say it's at least a little less obvious than tseug's level what needs to be done here to make the setup work.

I think part of the "giveaway" for me is how the shape of the terrain clearly indicates you want to bash "twice" but only have one basher, plus there're 2 builders which seem more than you'd need for anything conventional.  And of course also the fact that you're talking about glitches and tricks in the thread, so one would expect something unconventional anyway to start off.

[Clam]

It may be a trick, but not a glitch.

Oh, I meant most of my ideas are glitches, even if that one isn't. Sorry if that wasn't clear http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

I actually thought of the trick almost as soon as I look at the level.

I guess that's to be expected from an experienced player such as yourself http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />. But to some players, it looks like you don't have enough skills, and the level seems impossible. That, to me, is a sign of a good level.

[ccexplore]

I guess that's to be expected from an experienced player such as yourself http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />. But to some players, it looks like you don't have enough skills, and the level seems impossible. That, to me, is a sign of a good level.

Yeah, I agree, it is definitely a very good trick that's not glitchy, yet unless you've thought about it previously it's far from obvious.

I think actually part of the reason I'm so familiar with it, is because ages ago I had visions to create a level myself featuring it, that is until tseug beat me to the punch with his level. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />  Maybe I'll still try to create what I envisioned some day (despite the trick being so dated by now), it would be a more elaborate and dramatic use of the trick than previously featured, with more red errings to invite people down the wrong paths. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/devil.gif" alt=":evil:" title="Evil" class="smiley" />  (Then again, this description is probably more than enough to give someone a clear picture of what I have in mind. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />)

[geoo]

I thought I did a reasonable job of hiding it, actually. I did consider concealing it further by adding a section where you need a lot of digging skills, and you'd find yourself a basher short unless you did the first bit right. But I happened upon another way of diverting the player - speaking of which, here's a question for anyone who's solved the level:

Being already familiar with the trick from playing and making a level employing it, I found it to be pretty much in-your-face. (Simon looked for the hidden exit though http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />) I immediately saw it and went on to execute it, but I guess to people not familiar with the trick it's quite perfect: It's not the only thing you can try, but after some examination the level probably looks 'impossible' enough to resort to non-standard ideas.
What I really liked about the level though was that it did not require trial and error for me (...unlike tseug's or my level, ugh): I got it right at my second try in Lemmix, and retrying to see whether it works in Lix I got it at my first try. I think there's a lot of leeway in the skill placement to still make it work. Just like the execution, the design is also very nice and clean.

I think actually part of the reason I'm so familiar with it, is because ages ago I had visions to create a level myself featuring it, that is until tseug beat me to the punch with his level. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />  Maybe I'll still try to create what I envisioned some day (despite the trick being so dated by now), it would be a more elaborate and dramatic use of the trick than previously featured, with more red errings to invite people down the wrong paths. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/devil.gif" alt=":evil:" title="Evil" class="smiley" />  (Then again, this description is probably more than enough to give someone a clear picture of what I have in mind. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />)

I find your posts increasingly ironic for some certain reason. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />
More dramatic...I bet you're gonna make it involve blockers somehow. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />


I think we shouldn't ingore Nortaneous' levels, even though the second one required some bomber timing and had a trap somewhat hidden before the exit, I think the idea was nicely hidden within the terrain. For the first one, my solution is probably a backroute, as I go through the ceiling without bombers and save 8/10.

[finlay]

Am I at least on the right track with Clam's level here? I can't get the basher to go any lower. Hopefully you can see where I placed the bashers – I still can't run Lemmix on this machine, so watching or recording replays will have to wait until I can go to my dad's and use his windows computer or something.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15543016/clampanic.png" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15543016/clampanic.png

[geoo]

Nope, you're on the wrong track. I checked your method and it's possible to get two pixels further down with it, but that's still not sufficient.

[finlay]

Do you have to mine to the right and then somehow use builders so that there is enough terrain for the basher to keep bashing into the mined tunnel and then go down that way? I've stopped trying that now; too frustrating because I couldn't get the builders high enough..

Am I at least on the right track thinking that I have to use a miner to make the basher go lower?

[geoo]

Yes, you're correct with that idea.

You can use both miners to make a wider tunnel, and then getting the builders high enough above the floor is very easy.

[finlay]

oh right... using the two miners was the missing link, because i was still using one to get the basher lower to begin with by glitching through the steel... my mind was kind of gesturing towards the answer, I think. oh well, done it now. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />