Wiki

[Adam]

I've always found Wikia to be a right pain in the proverbial, so a few weeks ago, I set up our own Wiki - a few of you may have seen this Wiki whilst our redirect screwed up.

Clam Spammer and I did a fair bit of work at the start, but I've run out of steam for now. If anyone fancies contributing anything, feel free to do so http://www.lemmingsforums.com/wiki" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">here.

Adam http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

[Clam]

The more I think about this, the more I think it really is a much better idea than reviving the Wikia site, even if there was some progress on that. No ads (unless we get really desperate http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/scared.gif" alt=":scared:" title="Scared" class="smiley" />), no dealings with money-hungry business types, no age restrictions (I recall this being an issue for some people)... and I'd hazard a guess it's faster too - probably because it has no ads http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />. Basically, you can feel free to contribute without any moral objections - and let's face it, if you have moral objections about a Lemmings fansite, something is wrong with you http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />


First priority is to fix up the main page so it looks more welcoming and informative, instead of being just a collection of random discussion. If anyone knows about Wiki layouts and formatting, that'd be a great help! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

[Mr. K]

I used to know wiki formatting about 4-5 years ago, but I've probably forgotten most of it.  Can any old information be lifted from the previous wiki?

Once basic formatting is all figured out, I might do a run-down of different ports of the game or something.  I have a lot of them and always seem to run into more.

[Minim]

Wow. Four changes in the Special:RecentChanges box. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" /> No wonder why Lemmings is out of date.

[ccexplore]

Looks like the wiki's down again (Dec 7 1:04 PM GMT-8)?  That was quick.
[edit: I can access it again now (Dec 7 5:19 PM GMT-8).  I guess it could be issue on my end, but I was able to access other websites okay at the time]

I think the wiki formatting syntax is standard, so I'm guessing you could probably lift most of the old info from previous wiki, assuming they are worth lifting at all. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

Different ports is a pretty good topic for the wiki.  The fact is, most of the more commonly requested information like walkthroughs (for the most popular ports anyway), level codes, custom levels, editor and tools are already pretty well covered by various websites you can easily Google for.  Some websites do cover non-PC ports of Lemmings but that sort of info tends to be more scattered and slightly harder to find.  One really useful thing to include is maybe some instructions on how to find and set up emulators (this can be links to emulator websites) for trying out a particular port of the game.

[Adam]

The LF Wiki shouldn't be down. If it's ever down, please email me - mailto:adam@lemmingsforums.com" class="bbc_email">adam@lemmingsforums.com, and I'll see what the problem is.

Ports is going to be a major focus for this Wiki. I know the Master System port inside out, but struggle with most others. Between us, though, I think we could get a fairly comprehensive encyclopaedia of information.

Adam http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

[Mr. K]

Yay, ports.

I own physical copies of the following ports-- could possibly do scans if needed:
Game Boy Color (Lemmings and ONML)
PC/DOS (I believe it is a re-release version-- the manual mentions Lemmings 2 and ONML, for instance.  I don't have the box but I have the manual, but probably can't scan much of it because when I was about 3 years old I colored all the pictures in with marker)
PSP
Sega Game Gear
Sega Genesis (also Lemmings 2)
Sega Master System
Sega Mega Drive
Super Famicom
Windows 95
ZX Spectrum (demo version)

I also have access to the following through various means:
Acorn Archimedes
Amiga
Apple IIgs
Atari ST
Commodore 64
Game Boy (original)
Lynx
Macintosh (Lemmings, ONML, Holiday Lemmings 94)
NES
PS1
PS3
Sam Coupe
SNES
TI-83/84
possibly 3DO, CD-i and X68000 but I haven't confirmed that


I also have some other outliers, like the PS1 version of 3D Lemmings.

I may make the ports my little personal project, though I'm going to want help because while I can track down obvious differences, little things might get past me (and I also don't have time to play through the whole game so many times)  Also, we need to decide how we'll cover these.  Should pages be made like "Lemmings (Super NES port)" with a common info-box giving some basic facts (release year, etc), and then we document primarily differences from a baseline version (Amiga original?) and include scans and screens?
Also, it might be information/data overload, but anyone up for music recordings between versions?  I am very much into the music.

[Clam]

Wow. Four changes in the Special:RecentChanges box. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" /> No wonder why Lemmings is out of date.

You bring up a good point actually. If people visit the forum and find it has a barely-started wiki, they might just assume the game and community are dead. It might be a good idea to keep it low-profile until it reaches a presentable state. After that though, throw it wide open and link it to the forum homepage.

Looks like the wiki's down again (Dec 7 1:04 PM GMT-8)?  That was quick.
[edit: I can access it again now (Dec 7 5:19 PM GMT-8).  I guess it could be issue on my end, but I was able to access other websites okay at the time]

If you think the wiki (or any site) might be down, but you're not sure, try http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/.

I may make the ports my little personal project, though I'm going to want help because while I can track down obvious differences, little things might get past me (and I also don't have time to play through the whole game so many times)  Also, we need to decide how we'll cover these.  Should pages be made like "Lemmings (Super NES port)" with a common info-box giving some basic facts (release year, etc), and then we document primarily differences from a baseline version (Amiga original?) and include scans and screens?

Since this is a Lemmings wiki, rather than a general wiki (as if Wikipedia would devote entire pages to ports anyway http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />), I think pages for ports should be titled "[port] Lemmings" rather than "Lemmings ([port])". It makes it easier to use search (with autocomplete) to find the port you want, and avoids ending up with a ton of pages called "Lemmings [something]".

For levels that exist on multiple ports, we could have just one page for the level, and use subheading for each port to list any differences, so we don't end up with a huge number of similar pages. Not sure about similar levels with different titles (eg. Dolly Dimple / Dangerous Balcony), but probably those should have separate pages. Also, we need to organise the level list (on the pages for Fun, Tricky, Taxing, Mayhem) to show the different level titles. We tried using a table with a column for each port, but it wasn't very nice.

Music recordings would be great, so long as there aren't any legal issues.

[Gronkling]

A SPAMMER HAS HIT THE WIKI
Just gone on the wiki to make a few more pages to find 20 or so pages of averts made by some spammer.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/angry.gif" alt=">" title="Angry" class="smiley" />
I'll convert them into something more useful unless you want them deleted altogether.

[ccexplore]

I guess it's bound to happen sooner or later, given the open nature of wikis. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" /> I'm just glad the spambot/spamman didn't overwrite the existing pages as well.

Unless you have time on your hands, I'd just wait for Adam (or whoever has admin privilege on the wiki) to delete the pages.

[Clam]

Consider it gone. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

[Gronkling]

Thanks a lot!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />
 

[Clam]

This has done nothing but collect spam for the last couple of months (which, thankfully, someone has kindly removed http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />). Would it be a sensible idea to make it invite-only? Just because it's called a "Wiki", doesn't mean it has to be completely open, does it?

[Clam]

Let me start this post by making it clear that no one has failed the community by not updating the wiki enough. All contributions to date, however minor, are greatly apprecated. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

---

The wiki has been up for a year now, and I think it's time to seriously consider whether we should continue with it. It's getting more spam than ever, and there hasn't been a significant contribution for months. Heck, we haven't even dealt with the http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=416.msg9299#msg9299" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">first priority (making a proper main page) yet.

We need to think about what information we want to provide to visitors, and how best to present it. I had a discussion with Simon about this a while back, and we came to the conclusion that a wiki isn't the best format for the information we're putting on there. We're better off just referring to the existing fansites. If we want a new repository for information, the best thing is for a single user to create and maintain it - the old adage rings true, 'if you want it done right, do it yourself'.

Take a look at http://www.lemmingsforums.com/wiki/Special:AllPages" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">what's on the wiki right now. I'd guess that upwards of 95% of the info on there can be found on the Lemmings Encyclopedia. We've barely even touched ports (not to mention the other topics that I wanted to include eventually - glitches and records/challenges). What we have covered (to some extent at least) are the original levels and their stats, solutions, screenshots etc, all of which is on TLE. That doesn't mean we're doing the wiki wrong, however - a wiki should be a complete reference source and contain all that information. It means we're using the wrong format. If you want a site about ports, then make a site about ports, not a complete site about Lemmings that happens to contain info on ports. Wikis are great, and I'd love to see a complete wiki for this game, it deserves one. But, as we're starting to realise by now, they take a lot of work to get to a passable state. We have maybe 20 regular forum posters. We all have other things to do with our time. There's simply not enough of us to work on a project of this size.

tl,dr: Close the wiki. (Okay, maybe too alarmist, but tbh that's how I see it.)

[Simon]

Yes, this is a good summary. There is enough content to be organized in a wiki, but a good chunk of it is grindwork, and most other things are known to too few people.

If only a few people want to present things, a regular website dedicated to that is often easier to make, maintain, and navigate.

-- Simon