Cheapo Level Pak topic

[Isu]

I think I know the general idea for #2, but I don't seem to have adequate enough skills to release the crowd. Am I right in thinking that a blocker is the only skill left over (as stated by the hint)?

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I am completely befundled as to do what I did but with fewer skills.

[Shvegait]

I think I know the general idea for #2, but I don't seem to have adequate enough skills to release the crowd. Am I right in thinking that a blocker is the only skill left over (as stated by the hint)?

::

I am completely befundled as to do what I did but with fewer skills.

I just solved it! I hadn't looked at the hint before, but for some reason that made me figure out the rest of it. Maybe you should have put a hint warning, or put it in Wingdings, but that's OK. Just hope that ccexplore doesn't read the hint... (He has stated before he doesn't want to read the hints. And if I could solve it after seeing the hint, well, he would get it in 5 seconds ) Maybe you'll want to edit your post.

But now I'm wondering what you did, because the way I solved it there were adequate (albeit just barely) tools for everything. Maybe you are very very close.



Here's another small hint if you want, Isu: There are two pixel-perfect moves.

[Shvegait]

I've also finally managed to pass Level 10. Cool trick!

I still haven't managed Level 8, but I think I may have found the CustLemm solution. Does it have to do with blockers that continue blocking when they go into bomber animations? Actually, I'm not even sure if my solution would work then, but it might. I've managed to save 17/20 using a route that ignores the left side of the level, but I'm not sure if 18/20 is possible this way.

[geoo]

I still haven't managed Level 8, but I think I may have found the CustLemm solution. Does it have to do with blockers that continue blocking when they go into bomber animations? Actually, I'm not even sure if my solution would work then, but it might. I've managed to save 17/20 using a route that ignores the left side of the level, but I'm not sure if 18/20 is possible this way.

No, it isn't that.
Also, note that the modified version which I didn't release yet has a RR of 99 and a little other change.
Actually nothing has changed to my solution, but I want to check it again though.
So, I'll upload it tomorrow if you want.

Level 2:
Isu, yes, you're right.
I wonder What you did, Shvegait, since I see absolutely no way for needing all skills.
Could you, and Isu, PM me the main idea, please?
And your main idea for level 10?
I think it's correct, but I never know...

About 5, I'll see...

[Shvegait]

geoo: I didn't use the blocker, but I used everything else. When did I give the impression that I used all the tools? It was just that a couple of the tools were barely/exactly enough (Mainly the builder you need at the bottom left... there is a only one pixel where you can start building and it will fit where you need it to). I even said Isu's hint helped...

I'll PM you about 10 so you can check.

[chaos_defrost]

I figure I should comment on geoo's pack, seeing how the design style is being compared to mine. (Yes, I do see the preference for straight terrain, and the level style built around incorporating one of two clever tricks into a level and designing the terrain to fit these tricks.)

Very nicely done levels so far. Being in college, I've not played them as thoroughly as I'd like, but I did enjoy what I played.

I've passed roughly half the levels, although I've been thinking about #2 for a while. I deduced what Isu figured rather quickly, but from there my ideas seem to be stopped by something in the terrain. I do have a couple loosely fitted ideas that may pan into something.

Level 5 I managed a 22/23 solution with only builders and bombers. Isn't hard to fix, but it may ruin the real solution?

Overall, though, very well made. I'll comment more when I have the time to play them a bit more.

[ccexplore]

Just hope that ccexplore doesn't read the hint... (He has stated before he doesn't want to read the hints. And if I could solve it after seeing the hint, well, he would get it in 5 seconds )

Isu has edited his post before I read it, so you're safe for now.  Just as well, I wouldn't want to have accidentally read it.

Good job on #2 and #10. I guess poetic justice for my earlier comment on #7 eh?    Incidentally, is #10 very tricky to execute? (not figuring out, just the executing part)  I was trying it again last night and almost gotten it to work, but the execution wasn't quite right yet.  Doing the left side of the 100% Wicked 6 solution would've been easier.

I haven't tried #2 again after about the 2nd day after the initial release of the set.  I can't help but wonder if what Isu was trying to do was similar to the one solution that couldn't work because I need one more exploder to release the crowd (because I needed to control the crowd by blocking).  I don't think that approach can be adapted to the given skills though, so it should be something else.  Guess I should look at it again later tonight.

[ccexplore]

I've managed to save 17/20 using a route that ignores the left side of the level, but I'm not sure if 18/20 is possible this way.

Don't hold you breath on it.  My original 18/20 solution also ignores the left side of the level, but as soon as I found the intended solution I know my original solution is clearly a backroute and I have already told geoo89 about it, so if he did his fix right it'll probably eliminate whatever you have in mind too (or maybe not, we'll see).

[Shvegait]

Actually the part of Isu's comment that I was referring to he didn't edit out (but the part that he did edit out may have been a hint... I don't think it was though...) but I later checked what the actual level hint was, and well, it doesn't help *that* much. Maybe it was just one of those things where the solution just appears, you know?

About Level 10, it is pretty difficult to execute. Took me a good number of tries...

But of course I was determined to pass those levels (2 and 10) before you because of your comment  



About Level 8, I thought it would be a backroute, but I wasn't sure if it was similar to what you tried or not (of course, now I know it must be similar... there aren't many ways to avoid the left side...)

[ccexplore]

Level 7:<snip>

Let me look at the level again later tonight.  The fact that you are talking about making some of the steps 8-pixel tall should help me figure out what you intended solution is, so that I can determine what level of details to discuss with you.  I just need to make sure what I'm thinking works with the modification.

[Isu]

Actually the part of Isu's comment that I was referring to he didn't edit out (but the part that he did edit out may have been a hint... I don't think it was though...) but I later checked what the actual level hint was, and well, it doesn't help *that* much. Maybe it was just one of those things where the solution just appears, you know?

What's all this talk of me editing out a hint? I edited out nothing. See, I have a tendancy to hit the post button without proof reading it first. I often make little edits in posts just after posting. Usually it just something as small as some punctuation not being there, or to delete a few unwanted characters. I have yet again edited that post, but then I decided to undo my change after reading the posts succeeding Shvegait's.

Could you, and Isu, PM me the main idea, please?

@Geoo99: I'll send a PM in a few minutes. (That's assuming you still want it .)

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Blimey, I go offline for a mere two hours and I find nearly an entire page worth of posts was posted while I was gone. =8O

[Shvegait]

See, I have a tendancy to hit the post button without proof reading it first. I often make little edits in posts just after posting. Usually it just something as small as some punctuation not being there, or to delete a few unwanted characters.

I do that all the time as well. Sorry for any confusion. ccexplore maybe thought you said a lot more, and I just didn't remember exactly what your post was.

[ccexplore]

Level 7:
Also here you're right with the intended solution. I did it just a slightly different which caused that I only could save 22/25. Mine is a bit harder and I could avoid yours making the last step 8 pixels high, but maybe I accept it too.

Interesting.  I actually have a way to modify my 23/25 very slightly so that it still requires timing and saves 23/25, but should work even with the last step being 8 pixels high.  In fact, I think it might still work even if you truly have steps of height 7, 8, 9 for the final 3, though I can't test it fully without editing the level to try it out.  This does involve one of the things I did for the "infamous" 23/25 though, and to accomodate the increase of height in the last step it becomes even trickier to execute (in particular, getting the right timing for "the move").  The following ways can eliminate this solution, although it'd probably kill off yours too:

1) make the first 7-pixel step 9 pixels tall; or
2) make the second 7-pixel step 10 pixels tall; or
3) make the final 7-pixel step 12 pixels tall; or
4) make the top of the second 7-pixel step 4 pixels wider

(Well, assuming the timing works out perfectly; in actuality the last three numbers probably needs to be slightly lower because it takes time to walk from one spot to another.)

Your consolation is that I might be the only person to know how to pull it off for the near future (although actually, Insane Steve probably has the potential to figure it out himself...)

And so actually your intended solution is now somewhat of a mystery to me.  If you don't mind, I want to put this level aside shortly while I look at #10 and #2.

[ccexplore]

Ok, I finally got #2.  What a surreal experience:  I went back to #2 after having little success with #10.  I left off last week not quite seeing how to blow up enough terrain, so well, I decide to start off by blowing someone up without any particular solution in mind.  Then as soon as I start looking at the bomb hole, suddenly the solution came to me in an instant!

And I was right to ignore most of whatever geoo89 says in the level intro/hints.  I wouldn't call this level "nothing at all".  While it wasn't exactly very new, the solution is in a way fairly well disguised.

I'll PM geoo89 my solution, though I'm sure it's more or less the one and only one for the level.

Interestingly, I now want to play the original LemEdit version of this level.  Beside the obvious safe-fall distance changes, there are one or two other places where the Cheapo setup doesn't (according to my knowledge of the game mechanics) quite work exactly in LemEdit, so I am curious to see how exactly the LemEdit version was laid out.  Or perhaps a few of the differences cancel each other out.

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#10 unfortunately didn't quite work out.  My "almost" solution, sadly, have some issues when I tried to make the tiny pixel-level adjustments I want.  In particular there seem to be some weirdness regarding how walkers/fallers land in Cheapo, which annoyingly seems to conspire to make what I want to do not possible.  Most frustrating......

Yet that's the only idea where I can even get anywhere.  I tried two other things.  One of them, a Cheapo speciality of sorts, despite many many tries, it now seems that the game mechanics just would not allow the timing or positioning to work out the way I want.  The other one is just to test something out, and well, let's just say it proves that the solution is not that obvious.

Oddly, I'm far from using all of the skills, which obviously makes me think that I'm probably not going about this in the correct way at all.  But the other skills haven't revealed their secrets/usefulness to me yet.  Ah well, I guess it'll be a matter of time.

[ccexplore]

(L8 ) @ccexplore: would a 12 pixel block on the ground right to the very left bottom
staircase make you solution impossible?

By the way, seems to me your proposed change above doesn't actually eliminate the backroute you were concerned about.  You'll need to adjust other terrain as well.