Cheapo Level Pak topic

[guest]

Actually, thinking about it, maybe you don't even really need the wacky twist.  Something more ordinary could work as well.  The whole issue is just getting 38 out in time.

My first 38 out of 40 with the wacky twist has about 23 seconds left on the clock.  The most straightforward variant, which runs out of time, is short by about 3 seconds I think.  The new thinking is that without the wacky twist there is still another, far more ordinary replacement you can use that might be able to achieve something in between time-wise.  Maybe I'll check tomorrow.

[guest]

Actually, thinking about it, maybe you don't even really need the wacky twist. &#A0;Something more ordinary could work as well.

Yep, I've just reworked saving 38 out of 40 and come up with a very straightforward solution for it, taking care of the time issue simply by doing certain things slightly differently than before.  And I even have slightly more skills left.  13 seconds left on the clock.  

So 38 out of 40 is now officially also in the "ordinary solution" category.  But it still makes for a fun level nonetheless.

[Shvegait]

I've just passed it with 35 remaining as well, though I assume you must need to save 38 and that the 28 was a typo...

[chaos_defrost]

Yes, there's a HUGE back-route I need to fix. I might re-look the original level to see if I can pass it with 38/40.

Watch this space. I have a couple ideas to fix it... But ya, I think I needed to check the level design a lot better next time. I was just really glad that my intended solution worked.

The correct save percent is "28 of 40" -- not 38. Yes, I'll send over a not messed up version soon. Thanks for the testing.

Since a 38/40 solution is possible, I'd assume that you can do it with two blockers instead of three. And my solution cannot be done with 13 seconds left. I'm completely out of ideas to fix this... I might just have to scrap the level and re-design it with the same idea for the trick, but in a way that can't be done in an alternative, simpler route.

Better yet, if I can find the 38/40 solution, I might just raise it to that and throw it in the sets somewhere, making a different level for my intended trick.

EDIT: Ok, question to anyone who saved something like 35 or 38 or something: did ANY of your solutions use fewer than 5 builders? I might be able to make a revision to the level that takes a blocker and a builder out yet still maintains the original solution, although it'd raise the time limit to a point where any of the more mundane routes work also.

[guest]

Well so far I've used up all builders, so it might work to remove a builder and a blocker but I'd need to check and see.

[Shvegait]

My solution used up all the builders, as well.

[chaos_defrost]

Ok, I've made a revised version, with one fewer builder, one fewer blocker, no bombers, 2 additional bashers, and a minor-looking yet very important terrain addition. I played the level, and my solution does work. I reduced the time limit to 2:15, because the change doesn't affect the time to solve it nearly as much as I thought.

The URL is the same. Just re-download it from the link I posted. If you back-route (Or solve) this version, tell me. Thank you.

I'm reasonably sure the "weird twist" is not part of my solution, because you shouldn't be able to save many more than 28/40.

[guest]

Doh!  I just got 38/40 in your old version of the level without using the 3rd blocker, without the bomber, and only uses 4 builders (and still 13 seconds left).  But I guess I have to redo it in your revise level and see.......

[Proxima]

OK, I solved If Only They Could Swim. Or at least, I didn't quite, because you have to be annoyingly precise to stretch the bridge as far as possible with every builder, and I couldn't be bothered this late in the evening. But I know what the solution is.

Nice level.

[guest]

Phew!  My 4-builder 38/40 solution survives in your new version.

I'm now down to 5 seconds though, but I think if I had simply bash away the two "spikes" you added right at the very beginning I could probably bring the time back to 8 seconds or so.

The 4-builder 38/40 solution is somewhat trickier than the 5-builder in the old version of course, but it mostly evolved from the 5-builder 38/40 version.

Just so I don't leave you too disappointed, I believe, at a quick glance, you can stop at least my current 38/40 solution if you move the right spike to be about halfway between where it is now and the mon0lith.  I can't guarantee there isn't a brand new 38/40 of course, but you can be sure to hear about it if I found one.

[guest]

OK, I solved If Only They Could Swim. Or at least, I didn't quite, because you have to be annoyingly precise to stretch the bridge as far as possible with every builder

No.  That's why I did not rate that level with a P on my website.  And more importantly, that's precisely why I eventually decided to make the nearly imperceptable change I mentioned somewhere on this thread.

Believe me, I've gone through the same annoyance you did in order to test my change.  So I can tell you that (spoilers) _{although it might not look like it, you won't be able to get across the great lake with only 9 builders}.  You can however do this level without stretching any bridges, which is also why I have to keep the change very imperceptible.

[guest]

Regarding the spoiler above, obviously it's not a true statement as far as a literal reading goes, but you know what I mean:  doing it means you won't get 80/80 as required.

And I'm sure some of you are aware of that replay glitch where you can get you builder to build in thin air, so to speak.  Such solutions obviously doesn't count.  In any case, it won't help you significantly, you'll just be as frustrated.

[Shvegait]

Yeah, Ahribar, how can you know for sure that you have found the solution if you haven't been able to get it to work? Oftentimes fake routes will seem like the real solution but you will be off by one pixel or some such minor difference and the route is just there into making you think you've found the solution. I know that sometimes I throw in fake routes that barely don't work in order to frustrate people. &#A0;

(Or, yeah, ones that let you save one less than you need are fun too...)

Edit: I don't mean to imply all fake routes are intentional, a lot just happen from backroute fixing of course.

[chaos_defrost]

Move the right spike? Can't see what difference that'd make... but the right spike can be moved and my solution will still work. The left one cannot.

First, I'd need to figure out how to pull off a 38/40 with the reduced tasks. Does it involve any collide-stopping? (My solution does not, but it'd be helpful to know.)

[guest]

First, I'd need to figure out how to pull off a 38/40 with the reduced tasks. Does it involve any collide-stopping? (My solution does not, but it'd be helpful to know.)

No it does not.

Here's also a further, somewhat substantial hint to the reduced-task 38/40.  Copy the gibberish below and change the font to something normal (right now it's in Wingdings) to read.

My reduced-task 38/40 leaves "THE MON0LITH" on the mon0lith unscathed...barely.

And I actually can't say for sure whether moving the right spike closer to the mon0lith will definitely prevent what I'm currently doing, but at least it'll make things a little harder I think.