Non-100% levels: How many more skills needed for 100%?

[Minim]

Well, done! I'm impressed that my theory works. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

Anyway, I've done Wicked 12 and 15 with 5 skills. For 15, I used four extra floaters before I could build a safe drop for the others. I used a digger to trap the others.

Wicked 16 is just 1.

And to complete the Oh-No set, Havoc 10 needs 3 more skills: 2 bashers and a builder.

[Clam]

Well I had to dig out my WinLemms CD again, but I got the thing to work.

I think we can safely conclude that ceiling-bashing doesn't work in Lemmini http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

I'll be entertaining people over the weekend and next week, but some quick comments:

For [Wicked] 15, I used four extra floaters before I could build a safe drop for the others. I used a digger to trap the others.

I verify that you need to raise the landing point by just 6 pixels, and the first lemming out can get 6 build bricks laid in time for the 3rd lemming out.  Hence it's possible to make the drop safe with just a 2nd floater (this part is confirmed):

1st lemming starts building immediately upon landing, and 2nd lemming, after floating, will block on 1st lemming's 3rd build brick to turn him around to build left.

Because a blocker is used, someone else would still need to check that there are enough skills left to finish the level and also to free the blocker and have him (and the lemming freeing the blocker) turn around.

Havoc 10 needs 3 more skills: 2 bashers and a builder.

2 is definitely enough: add 1 blocker and 1 basher.  The real question is whether 1 basher alone is sufficient; I had a few tries last night but no luck so far.

Finally, for Wicked 12 2 is definitely enough:  1 digger and 1 builder (remember you already have 1 spare builder out of the 7 given that you don't need to make the path to the exit).  But I was quickly able to confirm that adding 1 digger alone is actually enough.  See attached replay which shows how to trap and release the crowd (I'm lazy and did not bother with the rest of the level.)

[Clam]

The rest of Wicked 15 works out easily enough. You can free the blocker with a single miner - it falls into the miner hole so you can turn it with a builder. So just 1 extra floater for 100%.

[Simon]

I will test later today if Hail 2 is solvable with just +1 miner, don't take this as a result yet.

Also, I do remember there was a lose-1 solution to unaltered Tricky 23, but can't recall how it was done. Does anyone have a replay again?

-- Simon

[LemSteven]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since the record for Mayhem 10 is Lose 2, it seems to me that 100% should be possible with just two extra floaters.

Also, Mayhem 26 is 100%-able with two bashers.

[Clam]

The replay for Tricky 23 is on the http://camanis.net/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?dir=challenge_replays" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Lemmings File Portal.

From the replay for Mayhem 10 (also on the Lemmings File Portal) it's pretty clear you can indeed save the two lost lemmings with a floater each.


Improved Wicked 8 to 3 skills (all bashers), by using two builders in between two walls so that one basher goes through both, using the bricks to keep it going in between.

Wicked 9 can be done fairly easily with 1 miner extra, by building a wall of bricks at the start. (And you don't need 2 miners to free the blocker - although the 4x4 grid means you have to put the blocker in the right place)

[ccexplore]

A few quick ones for Holidays:

Hail 2: +1 basher
Hail 6: +1 digger
Frost 6: +1 miner
Blitz 12: +1 digger

[ccexplore]

Havoc 10 needs 3 more skills: 2 bashers and a builder.

2 is definitely enough: add 1 blocker and 1 basher.  The real question is whether 1 basher alone is sufficient; I had a few tries last night but no luck so far.

After a lot of fussing around, I finally have an answer of "yes" for adding 1 basher alone for Havoc 10.  Replay attached.

[geoo]

I like this challenge idea, especially since it offers a new element in being allowed to add arbitrary skills.

Wicked 7 improved to 6. It can be done with e.g. 1 builder, 2 miners, 3 diggers.

While talking to Simon he noticed that the Lemmix version differs from the original version of 'Call in the bomb squad' that Simon has. The difference might or might not be relevant to this challenge. I guess we should use the version lacking the decoration for this challenge? (Sorry if this has already been noticed in earlier challenges.)

[ccexplore]

While talking to Simon he noticed that the Lemmix version differs from the original version of 'Call in the bomb squad' that Simon has. The difference might or might not be relevant to this challenge. I guess we should use the version lacking the decoration for this challenge? (Sorry if this has already been noticed in earlier challenges.)

There is technically no "Lemmix" version since the level data were ultimately direct copies from some PC version of Lemmings.  I'm curious now what difference Simon is seeing.  Are you talking about the water, or other terrain decorations outside of the main part of the level? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />

I did bought a floppy of presumably "original" PC Lemmings from Lemka a while ago, I can check later tonight to see if there are any difference between that version of that level, and the abandonia version (which I believe corresponds to the one included in LemmixPlayer, but we'll see).

[Simon]

This attachment is Bomb Squad in the Dos version I have here. All the fluffy terrain on the sides is missing, just a single steel block at the bottom is left.

My Lemmix setup has the level with the surrounding terrain instead.

-- Simon

[ccexplore]

 http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" /> Hmm, interesting.  How big is your vgalemmi.exe file?  Do you still remember where you got your copy of Lemmings from?

I'll try to check my floppy version tonight and see what's on it.  Come to think of it, maybe you should upload all the levelXXX.dat files from your version, so people can see if there are more differences in other levels; it'd be quite a coincidence if Taxing 27 was the only level different.

Anyway, for purpose of the challenge, I suppose both versions are acceptable for now, although if your solution specifically relies on one version, you should point out which one.  We may have to keep two scores for that level if the decorations actually make a difference.

[Simon]

vgalemmi.exe is 32,785 Bytes. I don't remember if this is a version from Abandonia in 2002 or the one from my L2 CD.

I always expected the elaborate terrain to be from the Amiga version, and wondered that Lemmix had it...

-- Simon

[Clam]

Curiously enough, when I play the level in DOSBox I get the "lite" version too. I'm almost certain both DOSBox and Lemmix are reading from the same levelpack file, since I don't have multiple copies of it. IIRC my version is from Abandonia.

(also, GameFAQs has the wrong code for this level http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />)