Christmas Lemmings Level reviews

[ccexplore]

Ah, as you can guess, clearly I didn't actually play through that level.  I can see now how annoying it can be.

But, I think one can argue that the given layout can be a sufficient and fair (but easily missed) hint.  Basically, if you assume that all the steel plates making up the "frame" of the box should be the same size and not overlapping each other, then #1 does seem to be the only place that is consistent with such a set up and having a gap of no-steel there, with the tiny bit of black pixel implying that you got the top edge of a steel plate there.  That in turn forces #2 and #3 to have fully steel behind the snow (otherwise either you have different-sized steel plates, overlapping ones, or weirdly shaped ones with ireegular edges and/or holes).

So maybe not too unfair, but sure, I would rather they spend their cleverness in other ways.

[DoubleU]

Just a suggestion, but eventually, someone should review the Xmas levels (not counting the ONML demos), if they haven't already.

[Simon]

Basically, if you assume that all the steel plates making up the "frame" of the box should be the same size and not overlapping each other, then #1 does seem to be the only place [...] (otherwise either you have different-sized steel plates, overlapping ones, or weirdly shaped ones with ireegular edges and/or holes).

No! If all plates are the same and don't overlap, then there is no gap whatsoever. The height of the wall is exactly 4 plates -- see the right wall of the box.

It is misleading, unfair, and horrible! Yes yes yes! Nananaanann nananan nan. Nananan.

-- Simon

[Minim]

Just a suggestion, but eventually, someone should review the Xmas levels (not counting the ONML demos), if they haven't already.

You mean the Xmas '91 and '92 levels? If so, I think there was a thread where you could review any level you want (it hasn't been updated for two years, but it's over http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=211.msg6350#msg6350" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">here by the way).

[ccexplore]

No! If all boxes are the same and don't overlap, then there is no gap whatsoever.

No overlap != "adjacent with no gaps" nor "left mirrors the right exactly". http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" /> In this case the left is missing the bottom-left plate and the next two shift down to form the infamous gap.  I did a horrible job explaining myself in previous post, but basically I believe those are the smallest amount of changes from a perfect box frame that is consistent with what can be seen.  "No gap"/"Perfect box frame" is inconsistent with the single black pixel (barely) visible.

So definitely misleading you into thinking "no gap".  Unfair? Maybe.  At least it's less mindless than a hidden exit, or hiding a real exit amongst 12 fakes. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

You mean the Xmas '91 and '92 levels? If so, I think there was a thread where you could review any level you want

So you don't want those levels reviewed here eventually? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" /> Somehow they aren't Xmas enough? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

[DoubleU]

You mean the Xmas '91 and '92 levels? If so, I think there was a thread where you could review any level you want

So you don't want those levels reviewed here eventually? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" /> Somehow they aren't Xmas enough? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

Well, at least the 92 levels, since someone did the 91 levels in that thread.

[Clam]

Frost 13 - 2 Minutes before midnight
http://www.lemmingsforums.com/resources/holiday/Frost13.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

Lemmings: 80
Save: 80 (100%)
Time: 2 minutes
Release rate: 1
Skills: 3 builders, 1 basher

Good: Neat solution that's not obvious, but easy to execute.
Bad: Waiting for 80 lemmings to file through the exit is just tiresome. Nuke-glitch solution spoils it somewhat.
Better than Flurry 13? Yes, this map is neat and compact, whereas 'Yo-yo Lem-lem' is unnecessarily lengthy, too easy and somewhat aimless.

[Minim]

Frost 14 - Happy New Year! II
http://www.lemmingsforums.com/resources/holiday/Frost14.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

Lemmings: 50
Save: 40 (80%)
Time: 3 minutes
Release rate: 1
Skills: 4 builders, 3 bashers

Good: Umm... The exit has moved closer to us than last time. Fewer skills in the sequelised version.
Bad: There's not much in this level, and it can be annoying to realise that you can't even save over 95%, the Objects look messy.
Better than Flurry 14? Unfortunately not. They're both well decorated, but Flurry 14 wins my vote, due to the bad object placement of Frost 14. Also, Flurry 14 should be ideal for creating challenges (and, you can get 100% http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />) whereas Frost 14 forces you to go through one route.

[finlay]

I don't know whether their design rule was "put steel areas where a block is, even if it's covered with regular terrain" or "put steel areas where steel blocks are visible" -- but I don't think they were even consistent throughout the games.

Hardly at all. The roof of the cell in Frost 12 has no steel areas, and Hail 7 ("Steel Ice Span") has none at all, despite being mostly made out of steel terrain wise. This may be because there were no digging skills in that level...

(In the original games, they were more consistent, but you won't be hard pressed to find a place where the steel area doesn't quite match up with the terrain block.)

[Clam]

Frost 15 - Plethora of Presents
http://www.lemmingsforums.com/resources/holiday/Frost15.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

Lemmings: 50
Save: 49 (98%)
Time: 5 minutes
Release rate: 45
Skills: 2 climbers, 1 bomber, 1 builder, 4 bashers, 1 miner

Good: Nice title. Various ways of handling the start (albeit some require precise bomber timing). Some craftiness needed to isolate a lemming at the end, since there's only one builder.
Bad: Somewhat of a mish-mash terrain-wise - some sections don't fit in with the rest of the level, eg. the steel exit platform and the floating snowman platform. Quite a long walk from the starting area to the next section of the level.
Better than Flurry 15? Yes, 'Head for the Hills!' employs a neat trick, but it's too one-dimensional. This one is a much nicer puzzle.

[Minim]

Less than a week till Christmas, and one more difficulty rating to go after this level.

Frost 16 - Up On The Rooftops
http://www.lemmingsforums.com/resources/holiday/Frost16.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

Lemmings: 80
Save: 79 (98%)
Time: 3 minutes
Release rate: 5
Skills: 1 climber, 1 floater, 1 blocker, 4 builders, 1 basher

Good: Good title, as it relates to the level design, limited skills especially as there's just one floater, as you need to find a way to turn round just the one lemming.
Bad: The snowman on the left is in an awkward position.
Better than Flurry 16? I'm not so sure. It is a close one, but I'm gonna say no. As both of them require lemmings to fall a great height, the Flurry 16 level has a bit more to it, despite the repetitive looking snow stones. When I originally played Holiday Lemmings I found Frost 16 to be easier than Flurry 16, but they're both roughly in the same difficulty area.

[Clam]

Hail 1 - Go Thataway!
http://www.lemmingsforums.com/resources/holiday/Hail1.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

Lemmings: 75
Save: 75 (100%)
Time: 6 minutes
Release rate: 50
Skills: 1 climber, 1 floater, 2 bombers, 2 blockers, 2 builders, 2 bashers

Good: Fairly small level, solution isn't immediately obvious, but can be worked out with a little thought. Decoration is tidy, and not overdone.
Bad: Quite inflexible in solution methods, this makes the level quite bad for challenges. The floating snow piece looks odd.
Better than Blitz 1? Yes! 'Oogilemming!' is a super-long snorefest, this beats it by a mile.

[Minim]

Hail 2 - Break on Through
http://www.lemmingsforums.com/resources/holiday/Hail2.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

Lemmings: 80
Save: 75 (93%)
Time: 2 minutes
Release rate: 99
Skills: 1 climber, 1 floater, 5 bombers, 4 blockers, 5 builders

Good: A nice short, quick level with a short timer and a high release rate. Lacks frustration by adding some blockers. Has steel to prevent an obvious backroute.
Bad: Might be too easy for it's position, although it is only Level 2.
Better than Blitz 2? I'm gonna say Yes. Hail 2 wins because it is better decorated and less repetitive than Blitz 2.

[finlay]

Hail 3: And a Happy New Year!
http://www.lemmingsforums.com/resources/holiday/Hail3.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />
Lemmings: 50
Goal: 25 (50%)
Rate: 5
Time: 9
Skills: 50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50

Good: Cute, reminds you why you're playing the game. Opportunity for variety with so many skills.
Bad: Terrible level and not appropriate for its position. I've yet to find a level based on a word that isn't a dead easy build-and-bash-fest (the "1995!" levels come close, I guess, since you land on a precarious spot, and I would actually like to try "Ohayo Lemming san" because the hiragana looks a bit harder to deal with than 666....). Terrain is boring and repetitive with no variation and the absolute minimum of decoration. Too much time and too many skills.

Edit: 20 minutes later and I can also confirm that one of the worst things about this level is that it leaves the tune "We wish you a merry Christmas" in your head.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sick.gif" alt=":sick:" title="Sick" class="smiley" /> (what is figgy pudding, anyway?)

Better than Blizzard 3: Hahaha, no. "Check your hints" is a bit easy when you know which exit to go for and all, and is a one-trick horse, but at least it's not time-wasting filler.

[Minim]

Believe it or not I would have said that Hail 3 is better than Blitz 3, possibly because the other level takes soooooo long to wait before the next skill comes into play, in other words there's a lot of walking. I'm glad you mentioned some good points to this quite atrocious level. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

Hail 4: Lemmintaschen?
http://www.lemmingsforums.com/resources/holiday/Hail4.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />
Lemmings: 80
Requirement: 78 (97%)
Time: 5:00
Release Rate: 1
Skills: 20 builders, 3 bashers, 0 diggers, 1 everything else

Good: The Menorah looks quite well designed (if it wasn't for the candles)
Bad: The level has quite a bad backroute that could've easily been modified by adding more steel. Instead it ruins the position of this level (It has even been mentioned as a solution over http://tle.vaarties.nl/holiday1994/solutions/amiga/hail/4/1/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">here). Even 97% is not a high enough requirement to increase the difficulty.
Better than Blitz 4? I'm going to be firm on this and say no. Blitz 4 is a better crafted solution which forces you to think who needs to use the builder to get 100% of the lemmings in, and also, there are no backroutes that I could find either. Despite the walking the process on that other level is quite neat.