Fewest different skills levels can be beaten with

Started by namida, September 17, 2009, 07:25:00 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

namida

(NeoLemmix equivalent of this challenge)

So a while back, I did a challenge to see which levels could be beaten with only one type of skill. Predictably, many levels could not.

So for these levels: What's the fewest different types of skills they can be beaten with, and what combination(s) of skills acheive this?

Just to clarify, it doesn't matter how MANY of the skill you use, only how many different skills you use. So in this topic, solving a level with 99 builders and 99 bashers is better than solving it with 3 builders, 3 bashers and a miner. That's what makes it different from the minimum skills topic - the amount doesn't matter, only the variety.

Once the minimum for a level is found, also try to look for other combinations of the same amount of skills that it can be beaten with. As before, 100% solutions and glitch solutions will be marked as such.

Possible markings:
(glitch) means that a glitch is required for this combination
(100%) means 100% is acheivable with this combination
(100%, glitch) means that 100% is acheivable with this combination, and a glitch is required
(glitch for 100%) means that a glitch is required to acheive 100% with this combination, but it's possible to pass the level with a lower % without using glitches
If there's no tags, it means that no glitches are required, and 100% is not possible.

If a level is not on this list, it was beaten in the single-skill challenge.

Original Lemmings

Fun

4: 2 types. Climbers+Miners (100%)
15: 2 types. Bombers+Builders, Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%), Builders+Diggers
22: 2 types. Bombers+Bashers, Blockers+Bashers, Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%), Bashers+Diggers
23: 2 types. Bombers+Bashers, Blockers+Bashers, Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%), Bashers+Miners (100%), Bashers+Diggers (100%)
28: 2 types. Floaters+Builders (100%), Bombers+Builders, Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%), Builders+Diggers (100%)
29: 2 types. Bombers+Builders, Blockers+Builders (glitch), Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%), Builders+Diggers (100%)

Tricky

5: 2 types. Builders+Bombers, Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners(100%), Builders+Diggers(100%)
7: 2 types. Floaters+Builders, Bombers+Builders, Builders+Blockers, Builders+Bashers, Builders+Miners (100%), Builders+Diggers (100%), Climbers+Builders (glitch)
10: 2 types. Bombers+Builders, Blockers+Builders, Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%), Builders+Diggers (100%)
11: 2 types. Bombers+Builders, Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners(100%), Builders+Diggers (100%)
12: 2 types. Floaters+Builders (100%)
14: 2 types. Bombers+Builders, Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%)
16: 2 types. Bombers+Bashers, Bombers+Miners (glitch)
18: 3 types. Floaters+Bombers+Diggers, Floaters+Builders+Diggers, Bombers+Builders+Diggers
19: 4 types. Climbers+Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%)
20: 3 types. Climbers+Bombers+Bashers, Bombers+Blockers+Bashers (glitch), Bombers+Builders+Bashers, Bombers+Bashers+Diggers, Blockers+Bashers+Diggers (glitch), Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%)
21: 2 types. Bombers+Builders, Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%) Builders+Diggers (100%)
23: 4 types. Climbers+Builders+Bashers+Miners, Climbers+Builders+Bashers+Diggers
24: 2 types. Blockers+Builders
25: 3 types. Floaters+Builders+Bashers, Floaters+Builders+Miners, Bombers+Builders+Bashers, Bombers+Builders+Miners, Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%), Builders+Miners+Diggers (100%)
27: 3 types. Climbers+Builders+Miners, Bombers+Builders+Bashers, Blockers+Builders+Bashers, Builders+Bashers+Miners (100%), Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%)
30: 2 types. Climbers+Miners (100%), Builders+Miners (100%)

Taxing

1: 3 types. Builders+Bashers+Miners (100%), Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%), Bombers+Builders+Bashers
2: 2 types. Blockers+Builders
4: 2 types. Builders+Miners (100%)
5: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%)
6: 2 types. Bombers+Bashers, Blockers+Bashers, Bashers+Diggers (glitch for 100%)
7: 3 types. Bombers+Builders+Bashers (glitch)
8: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%)
9: 2 types. Blockers+Diggers (100%), Builders+Diggers (100%), Miners+Diggers (100%)
11: 2 types. Builders+Diggers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%)
12: 2 types. Builders+Miners (100%), Builders+Bashers (100%)
13: 4 types. Blockers+Builders+Bashers+Miners, Builders+Bashers+Miners+Diggers (100%)
14: 2 types. Bombers+Builders, Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%), Builders+Diggers (100%)
16: 2 types. Floaters+Builders (100%)
17: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (glitch)
21: 3 types. Climbers+Builders+Miners (100%)
22: 2 types. Floaters+Builders (100%), Blockers+Builders, Builders+Bashers, Builders+Miners, Builders+Diggers (100%)
25: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Bombers
26: 2 types. Builders+Miners (100%)
27: 2 types. Bombers+Builders, Blockers+Builders
28: 3 types. Floaters+Builders+Bashers
29: 3 types. Climbers+Builders+Miners (100%), Blockers+Builders+Bashers (glitch)

Mayhem

1: 2 types. Floaters+Builders (100%)
3: 4 types. Builders+Bashers+Miners+Diggers (100%)
5: 3 types. Blockers+Builders+Diggers
7: 3 types. Builders+Bashers+Diggers
8: 2 types. Builders+Diggers (100%), Bombers+Builders
9: 3 types. Blockers+Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%)
10: 2 types. Floaters+Builders
12: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (glitch, 100%)
13: 3 types. Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%), Blockers+Builders+Miners (100%), Builders+Miners+Diggers (100%), Builders+Bashers+Miners (100%)
15: 2 types. Builders+Bashers, Builders+Miners, Blockers+Builders
16: 2 types. Bashers+Diggers (100%)
17: 2 types. Blockers+Builders, Builders+Miners (100%), Builders+Diggers
19: 2 types. Bombers+Builders
20: 5 types. Climbers+Blockers+Builders+Bashers+Miners (100%)
21: 4 types. Floaters+Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%)
22: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%)
23: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%)
27: 2 types. Bashers+Diggers (100%)
28: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%)
29: 3 types. Blockers+Builders+Diggers
30: 2 types. Builders+Bashers

Oh No! More Lemmings!

Tame

20: 2 types. Builders+Bombers,  Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%), Builders+Diggers (100%)

Crazy

1: 2 types. Blockers+Bombers, Blockers+Diggers (100%)
2: 2 types. Builders+Diggers (100%)
6: 3 types. Climbers+Builders+Diggers (100%)
7: 4 types. Climbers+Floaters+Builders+Bashers (100%)
8: 3 types. Blockers+Builders+Bashers, Builders+Bashers+Miners (100%), Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%), Bombers+Builders+Bashers
9: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%), Bashers+Miners (100%), Bashers+Diggers (100%)
10: 3 types. Bombers+Builders+Bashers (glitch)
12: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%)
13: 3 types. Builders+Miners+Diggers (100%), Climbers+Miners+Diggers,
14: 4 types. Blockers+Builders+Miners+Diggers
15: 2 types. Builders+Diggers (100%), Climbers+Builders (glitch),
16: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%)
17: 3 types. Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%)
18: 3 types. Builders+Bashers+Miners (100%), Bombers+Builders+Bashers, Bombers+Builders+Miners, Blockers+Builders+Bashers, Blockers+Builders+Miners
19: 3 types. Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%), Bombers+Builders+Bashers, Bombers+Builders+Diggers, Blockers+Builders+Bashers, Bombers+Blockers+Builders (glitch)
20: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Bombers

Wild

1: 2 types. Bombers+Builders, Bombers+Bashers, Bombers+Miners, Builders+Miners (100%)
2: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%), Bombers+Builders
4: 2 types. Builders+Bashers
5: 2 types. Bombers+Builders
6: 2 types. Builders+Diggers (100%), Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%)
7: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%)
8: 3 types. Climbers+Floaters+Builders (100%)
10: 2 types. Builders+Bashers
11: 2 types. Builders+Miners (100%, glitch)
12: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (glitch for 100%)
13: 5 types. Climbers+Bombers+Builders+Bashers+Miners
14: 2 types. Builders+Bashers
15: 3 types. Bombers+Builders+Bashers
16: 2 types. Climbers+Builders (100%)
17: 2 types. Builders+Miners (100%), Builders+Bashers (100%)
18: 2 types. Bombers+Builders
20: 2 types. Bombers+Builders, Blockers+Builders, Builders+Diggers (100%)

Wicked

1: 2 types. Climbers+Bombers, Bombers+Bashers (glitch), Bombers+Miners (glitch)
2: 4 types. Builders+Bashers+Miners+Diggers (100%), Climbers+Builders+Miners+Diggers (100%)
3: 2 types. Builders+Diggers (100%, glitch)
4: 2 types. Builders+Bombers, Builders+Bashers, Climbers+Builders
5: 3 types. Climber+Bashers+Diggers (100%)
7: 2 types. Bombers+Blockers
8: 3 types. Climbers+Bombers+Builders
10: 4 types. Floaters+Bombers+Blockers+Builders, Floaters+Blockers+Builders+Diggers, Bombers+Blockers+Builders+Diggers
11: 3 types. Builders+Bashers+Miners
12: 3 types. Blockers+Builders+Miners
14: 2 types. Bashers+Builders
15: 2 types. Floaters+Builders
16: 3 types. Bombers+Builders+Miners, Floaters+Bombers+Builders
19: 2 types. Builders+Bashers
20: 2 types. Bombers+Builders (glitch), Blockers+Builders, Builders+Diggers

Havoc

1: 2 types. Builders+Bashers, Builders+Miners, Builders+Diggers (glitch)
2: 3 types. Floaters+Builders+Diggers (100%), Blockers+Builders+Diggers (glitch)
3: 3 types. Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%)
4: 3 types. Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%)
5: 4 types. Climbers+Builders+Bashers+Miners (100%)
7: 4 types. Climbers+Bombers+Builders+Miners, Climbers+Bombers+Builders+Diggers, Climbers+Bombers+Builders+Bashers
8: 3 types. Climbers+Builders+Miners
9: 3 types. Climbers+Builders+Miners (100%)
11: 2 types. Builders+Miners (100%), Builders+Diggers (100%), Blockers+Bashers (100%, glitch)
13: 3 types. Builders+Bashers+Miners (100%), Blockers+Builders+Bashers, Blockers+Builders+Miners
14: 4 types. Climbers+Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%)
15: 2 types. Builders+Blockers (glitch)
16: 2 types. Blockers+Builders
17: 2 types. Bombers+Builders, Blockers+Builders (glitch), Builders+Bashers, Builders+Miners, Builders+Diggers
18: 3 types. Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%, glitch?)
19: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%)
20: 4 types. Climbers+Floaters+Bombers+Miners

Holiday Lemmings

Frost

3: 2 types. Bombers+Builders, Blockers+Builders, Blockers+Bashers (100%, glitch) Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%)
4: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%)
6: 2 types. Blockers+Builders
7: 2 types. Bombers+Builders, Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%)
10: 4 types. Builders+Bashers+Miners+Diggers (100%)
11: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%)
12: 3 types. Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%)
14: 2 types. Builders+Bashers
15: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%)
16: 3 types. Climbers+Floaters+Builders (100%)

Hail

1: 4 types. Climbers+Floaters+Builders+Bashers (100%)
3: 2 types. Builders+Bashers
4: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%)
5: 2 types. Floaters+Builders
8: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%)
9: 3 types. Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%)
10: 3 types. Builders+Bashers+Miners (100%)
11: 3 types. Builders+Miners+Diggers (100%)
13: 4 types. Climbers+Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%)
14: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%)
15: 3 types. Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%)
16: 2 types. Floaters+Builders (100%)

Flurry

8: 3 types. Climbers+Builders+Bashers (100%)
10: 2 types. Bombers+Builders, Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners, Builders+Diggers (100%)
14: 2 types. Climbers+Builders (100%, glitch), Blockers+Builders (glitch), Builders+Bombers, Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%), Builders+Diggers (100%)
16: 3 types. Blockers+Builders+Bashers, Bombers+Builders+Bashers

Blitz

1: 3 types. Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%)
2: 2 types. Builder+Diggers (100%), Builders+Bashers (100%)
4: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%)
5: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%), Builders+Miners (100%)
8: 2 types. Builders+Bashers (100%)
9: 2 types. Floaters+Builders, Builders+Diggers (100%)
11: 3 types. Builders+Bashers+Diggers (100%)
12: 2 types. Bombers+Diggers
13: 2 types. Blockers+Builders
15: 4 types. Climbers+Floaters+Bombers+Bashers
16: 3 types. Bombers+Builders+Bashers
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

Minim

Nice sequel project! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

So in this topic, solving a level with 99 builders and 99 bashers is better than solving it with 3 builders, 3 bashers and a miner.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> I like what you said there.

Anyway, Mayhem 20 with climbers, miners, bashers, blockers and builders;
Builders and bashers or miners and builders to Fun 15.
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

namida

Fun 15 can also be done with bombers and builders (not 100% though). It *cannot* be done with diggers and builders as far as I can tell, and if it can, certianly not 100%.
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

Minim

Bashers and builders to Fun 22 and 23. Couldn't do it with miners and builders though...
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Proxima

In "What skills can't you live without?" ccexplore did Fun 23 with builders and miners.

Let's get some obvious ones out of the way:

Tricky 5 / Taxing 8 can be done with bashers and builders.
Tricky 16 can be done with bashers (well, one basher) and bombers.
Tricky 18 is the first level to require three different skills, which can be dig/float/bomb or dig/build/bomb.
[EDIT: Mayhem 1 superseded by Clam Spammer's result, see below]
Mayhem 16 and 27 can be done with bashers and diggers.
Mayhem 20 requires all the given skills.
Tame 20 can be done with a builder and either a basher, miner or digger.
Crazy 2 can be done with builders and diggers.
Crazy 6 requires at least one of all three available skills.
Crazy 7 requires four skills: climbers, floaters, builders, bashers.

Proxima

Fun 28 can be solved (100%) with miners and builders, or diggers and builders.
Fun 29 can be solved with miners, bashers and builders. I was trying it with just miners and builders but fell short... still, I wasted builders here and there... feel it might be possible.
EDIT: miners and builders confirmed! Non-100% of course due to the high RR.
The floor route on Taxing 1 requires just builders, bashers and a digger or miner (and saves 100%).
Taxing 9 seems to need three different skills (floater, miner, digger).
Taxing 22 can be done (with 100%) with builders, a digger and a floater or builders, a miner and a floater.
Mayhem 3 of course requires four (builder, basher, miner, digger -- I believe the solution without the basher uses more skills in total).
Mayhem 21 requires all five given types of skill.
Mayhem 23 requires builders, bashers and the floater (100%).
Mayhem 29 requires builders, blockers and diggers.

namida

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=181.msg5062#msg5062">Quote from: minimac on 2009-09-17 01:42:20
Bashers and builders to Fun 22 and 23. Couldn't do it with miners and builders though...

22 can be done with Builders+Miners (and 100%, too).

Mayhem 1 can also be done with floaters, builders and diggers, not sure at this point if 100% is acheivable or not.

And yes, the non-basher Mayhem 3 solution uses the floater and the blocker, so it's more effective from a less-variety point of view to use the basher.

Can Taxing 27 be done without blockers?
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

namida

Mayhem 13: Three skills. Builders, Bashers and Diggers. Possibly the first challenging solution in this topic.

EDIT: Or a completely different solution (same skillset though).
My projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)
Non-Lemmings: Commander Keen: Galaxy Reimagined (a Commander Keen fangame)

Proxima

There's a mistake in your master list: Mayhem 29 should be builders, blockers and diggers (unless you've solved it with builders, bashers and diggers as well).
You've omitted Taxing 8 and the builders/miners solution to Fun 23 (I think the latter is 100%, can't see any reason for it not to be).
Taxing 9 can also be done with build/bash/dig or build/mine/dig.

Tricky 10 can be done with blockers and builders or diggers and builders (the latter 100%).
Tricky 11 is easy: builders and any one of bombers, bashers, miners, diggers. Only the bombers option is non-100%.
Tricky 12 can be 100%ed with floaters and builders.

Minim

I've done some more Mayhem for you.

5: Builders, Blockers, Diggers.
7: Climbers, Builders, Bashers, Diggers.
8: Climbers, Builders, Diggers (100%).
9: Blockers, Builders, Bashers.
10: Floaters, Builders, Diggers.

Replay for Level 10 (although it isn't that difficult, I got 80%)

Apologies for Level 12, my replay was somehow a blooper solution, I'll post it up.
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Proxima

Mayhem 13: Three skills. Builders, Bashers and Diggers. Possibly the first challenging solution in this topic.

Solved http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> Yes, that was a neat little challenge. I would say Fun 23 and 29 builders/miners are also challenging, although those are challenging to do rather than to work out how.

Tricky 19: climbers, builders, bashers and diggers (first level to require four skill types).
Tricky 20: blockers, builders, bashers and diggers.
Tricky 23: climbers, builders, bashers and diggers.
Tricky 25: floaters, builders and bashers.
Tricky 27: climbers, builders, bashers and miners.
Tricky 30: climbers and miners.
Taxing 2: builders, bashers and miners.

Mayhem 15: blockers, builders and bashers or builders, bashers and diggers (100%). The latter is quite an interesting challenge.
Mayhem 17: blockers and builders.
Mayhem 19: bombers and builders.

Minim

Fun 28 and 29 works with bashers and builders. Fun 28 solved 100%.

Can Taxing 27 be done without blockers?

Not sure, but I remember ClamSpammer saying in the challenge thread it's possible without bombers, in other words it's possible with blockers and builders.
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Clam

Mayhem 1 can be done (quite easily in fact) 100% with floaters and builders.

ccexplore

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=181.msg5082#msg5082">Quote from: Proxima on 2009-09-17 09:13:09
Taxing 9 can also be done with build/bash/dig or build/mine/dig.

Can't resist one last post (or possibly a few) before my http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=81.msg4984#msg4984" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">1-week absence...

I thought you said on the challenge thread that http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=12.msg4792#msg4792" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">you solved my challenge?  Was that for http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=12.msg3835#msg3835" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Taxing 9 or something else?  (I seem to recall dig-mine-build, as in using exactly 1 digger 1 miner 1 builder, not working out for me on that challenge, but maybe I didn't test it out thoroughly enough...)

Anyway, I can tell you that both solutions I have on that challenge uses only 2 types of skills (not the same combo either).  I'll reveal them when I come back from my cruise next week, in case someone is still working on that challenge.  Or perhaps those solutions will be found before I'm back?  And for this thread, you don't even need to restrict yourself to using exactly 3 skills or not going off the right, so one of the 2-type solution should actually become a bit easier to find.

Proxima

That was when we were all talking about Tricky 13, so the challenge referred to was the one you set way back on the old forums -- Mayhem 25 with 5 builders. (Sorry about the confusion -- it would have been clearer had there not been so many posts from me and others in quick succession with overlapping achievements on these levels, resulting in me deciding to compress my posts into one and delete the earlier ones.)

My Taxing 9 build/bash/dig and build/mine/dig solutions do indeed use both diggers (which is okay for this topic, of course).