Here I Go Again!

[ccexplore]

This one should be challenging for at least a couple minutes before you Lemmings masters figure it out. (-: 100% is reasonably easy to pull off with time to spare, so if you're stumped, keep at it!

Cavelems: Spelunk 'n' Dunk

I've attached screenshots of my solution.  It was relatively easy to figure out for me, but somewhat of a pain to execute.  Worst moment was when I thought I was done, and then the game reminded me right at the end that the parachuter is a permanent skill, which translates to every fall being a chance for the lemming to go off course if you don't pay attention and adjust. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />

Overall it's a good level and I enjoyed it, but I find myself liking the Beach level better.  Still, I might revisit this level some other time and see if you really need that many builders.

[GuyPerfect]

I put in extra Builders and terrain elements to allow for multiple solutions. I'm a firm believer that most of the time, there should be different routes to the exit. It gives people a chance to invent their own ways of going about doing things without trying to figure out the one answer.

That said, the solution I had in mind when making the level is available in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYjwOntJLyM" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">this here YouTube clip!

[weirdybeardy]

This isn't really adding to the thread; I just wanted to say that's it's pretty cool that a functional L2 editor is coming along so quickly. It's pretty exciting. Keep up the excellent work. I'm loving it.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

Heh, I've just read that paragraph back to myself and it sounds really patronising, but it wasn't meant to be.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> I admire anyone with programming skills!

Oh, and the YouTube clips are great.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

That said, the solution I had in mind when making the level is available in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYjwOntJLyM" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">this here YouTube clip!

Interesting.  One thing I still haven't quite gotten used to is the maximum safe falling distance in Lemmings 2.  Some of the falls in your solution I wouldn't have dared to try.

[GuyPerfect]

Okay, got a one-screen-wonder for ya this time. I wanted to see how much puzzle I could pack into a single screen of level, and the answer is... not very much. The result is a relatively easy level, though the answer might not be obvious at a glance. But hey, at least I made a Classic level with non-Classic skills, right? I haven't tested Attractor yet, but everything else seems to work just fine.

It's attached as LEVEL000.DAT and will replace Classic 1.

Classic - Always the Long Route
Time: 3:30
Skills: 2 Rock Climber, 1 Bomber, 2 Platformer, 1 Slider, 2 Laser Blaster, 2 Shimmer, 1 Basher

http://perfectkiosk.net/lemmings/AlwaysTheLongRoute.png" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

[Dullstar]

Can someone please explain what is left to implement?

[ccexplore]

LOL http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> But you know, Dullstar's got a point.  If you keep on making custom levels instead of wrapping up the editor so that other people can start doing that stuff, it's going to get everyone very annoyed very soon. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />

=========

@Dullstar:  GuyPerfect can fill in the details of what's left, but one obvious missing piece is the skill selector.   GuyPerfect is currently using a separate stop-gap program for that, one that only runs on Windows.

[GuyPerfect]

These levels are the byproduct of testing, actually. They've provided a large amount of insight as to the behavior of the game when it draws levels (even though there's enough memory for a certain number of tiles high, it only draws up to so many visually), the way different objects in different tribes are positioned (I had to introduce a little cheater routine to position things like steel blocks with the correct memory bias), and many many bits of the editor's code itself have been vised and revised in the process. Just today I tweaked the signed save/load procdures for object handling.

I would like that when the project enters beta testing, you guys won't have any bugs to report.

Some tribes need to have their graphical display adjusted a bit. Some exits are composited of multiple elements (like the flag on the Medieval exit being a separate part from the castle thing), certain objects like the cannons and chains need to be supported, and there are a few problem elements in the official levels that were put in the files incorrectly that need to be fixed on load so that the editor handles them properly.

Some user interface elements still need to be invented. These include the skills menu, the save/load/etc. functions, and object properties like the number of repeating steel blocks or the number of links in the chain. I'm still considering how to go about doing this. The picker box region can be repurposed based on context of usage, so I may be able to avoid implementing additional windows whatsoever.

There are other circumstances slowing development that do not pertain to the project, and I will not be bringing them up here.

[ccexplore]

These levels are the byproduct of testing, actually.

Figured you're going to say something like that.  Of course, the argument is somewhat weaken by the fact that you're creating real levels, instead of levels targeting particular things to test for.

I think it would be more convincing if you had included a brief summary of bugs you've actually fixed (or some other sort of progress report) as a result of the time spent on creating and playtesting the levels.  I'm certainly not trying to stop you from creating more levels for fun since I'm certainly having fun playing them myself, but if you're going to also claim testing effort for those, you really should clearly communicate to everyone that progress is actually being made on that front. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

I would like that when the project enters beta testing, you guys won't have any bugs to report.

Well, a man can dream I guess. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" /> (Not implying anything one way or another about your coding skills, just a general observation about programming and bugs.  Then again, I suppose one can always claim something's a "feature". http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />)

[GuyPerfect]

You can theorize at me all you want; doesn't make a bit of difference. And if you don't want to receive any further progress updates, you could have asked more directly.

[ccexplore]

And if you don't want to receive any further progress updates, you could have asked more directly.

 http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" /> Typo?

I thought I was being clear, but anyway:  I personally have no complaints with you spending the rest of your life making custom levels and never actually releasing the editor, if you so choose; however, I say it's a bit of a stretch to try to pass the levels off as serious testing activity for the editor.  If you're going to do that, at least provide a progress update alongside each of your levels to prove that something was fixed or completed as a result, or at least that you've covered something not previously tested with your "testing".

To put it differently, if your current levelmaking activity counts as testing, then I think you've gotten to the point where you should consider distributing the testing effort to a wider set of people then yourself.  Surely having 5 (say) people making levels "testing" at the same time will cover more areas more efficiently than 1, especially if you also suggest particular areas you want tested.  The fact that you were able to release actual playable custom levels proves that you currently possess all the tools to do so, even if some parts of it aren't actually in the editor yet, which means all of us probably can too if the necessary programs are released for testing.

[edit: it may well be that the amount of time you spent on the levels are a miniscule fraction of the time you spent on making coding/design/bug-fixing progress with the editor, in which case it's not a big deal.  But currently your publishing level after level, with no progress report on the editor itself until Dullstar asked, only re-inforces a perception, however wrong it may be, that you may be spending more time making levels than actually making the editor.  Which was exactly http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=176.msg6618#msg6618" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">my point.]

[Simon]

I would like that when the project enters beta testing, you guys won't have any bugs to report.

http://i.imagehost.org/t/0778/stallmantexasrangerzh0_1.jpg" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/shouldbefree.html" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">RMS is not amused.

-- Simon

[ccexplore]

Okay, but that really has nothing to do with beta testing. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />

[Clam]

Hey, I heard an interview with that guy on the radio the other day. Kinda crazy, but right of course...

Anyway, I doubt we'll get to the point of comparing GP to the "owners" referred to in the linked article - unless, of course, he really does plan to "Profit!" as jokingly mentioned earlier http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

Okay, back to your latest level test data http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/winktounge.gif" alt=";P" title="Wink-Tongue" class="smiley" />:

I wanted to see how much puzzle I could pack into a single screen of level, and the answer is... not very much. The result is a relatively easy level, though the answer might not be obvious at a glance.

Well at least I didn't find it too easy.  After a number of false starts, I eventually ended up with the attached solution.  This time I used up all the skills given.

[edit: tried again and finally found a 2nd solution that feels more "normal".  With 1 leftover shimmier.  Once again featuring a fall that looks deadly but apparently isn't.  Attached]

[edit2: confirmed my 1st solution can be improved to 1 leftover rock climber, and about 1:30 left on the clock]

I haven't tested Attractor yet, but everything else seems to work just fine.

Try nuking the level......

That said, nothing harmful seems to have come of it.