What skills can't you live without?

[Proxima]

So, nine years after we agreed on the necessary skills for Tricky 19, and three years after we thought the entire topic was finished, Nessy points out that it can be done without the digger.

[namida]

So, nine years after we agreed on the necessary skills for Tricky 19, and three years after we thought the entire topic was finished, Nessy points out that it can be done without the digger.

Not quite. We still don't have any result for Mayhem 2 of Prima.

[LemSteven]

So, nine years after we agreed on the necessary skills for Tricky 19, and three years after we thought the entire topic was finished, Nessy points out that it can be done without the digger.

Nice one!  I just solved it without watching the video.  I'm truly shocked nobody found this one earlier, especially since I had experimented with a similar solution for the "Under 1 minute" thread.

[ccexplore]

So, nine years after we agreed on the necessary skills for Tricky 19, and three years after we thought the entire topic was finished, Nessy points out that it can be done without the digger.

Nice one!  I just solved it without watching the video.  I'm truly shocked nobody found this one earlier, especially since I had experimented with a similar solution for the "Under 1 minute" thread.

I can't replicate the youtube video in legacy Lemmix, the steps seem too wide and the basher stops after one stroke.  LemSteven/Proxima, did either of you have a chance to actually try it out in either Lemmix or DOS Lemmings?

I'm not well versed enough in what mechanics were tweaked in NeoLemmix to apparently make it possible there, maybe someone else can chime in.

[namida]

I didn't see Nessy's solution in the video, but if it's what I think it is...

Spoiler

(One lemming climbs, bash through the staircase about half-way through the middle section, build to both turn around and close the gap, mine down to start area, make the worker into a floater so he doesn't die)

...then no, this will not work on DOS / vanilla Lemmix. NeoLemmix's basher is a fair bit more sensitive than the DOS L1 basher.

[Proxima]

Hmm. I tested it on the Lemmix Player I have, but now that I look again at the player, it has "Lemmings, NeoLemmix Edition" on the main menu screen. Sorry about the confusion Where does one get vanilla Lemmix players these days?

[LemSteven]

I did my solution in DOSBox, and it turns out it was completely different from Nessy's solution (which I believe doesn't work in DOS):

The Basic Idea:

A right-facing basher and miner stop each other and create a walkable path over the first obstacle.

Solution

Make the first lemming a climber and set the release rate to 86.  After a few lemmings come out, drop it back to 50.  The climber scales the ledge and mines after a couple of frames.  The fifth lemming out then bashes as he hits the wall.  The basher and miner should stop each other on the miner's fourth stroke, and the terrain will allow the crowd to ascend the ledge (see attached screenshot).  Build over the gap, using climbers to save the lemmings that fall in.

[Minim]

So, I decided to take a look at the last level that hasn't been looked at at all: Prima Mayhem 2: "Which way do we go?".

My first result so far is 5 builders. I was able to navigate round the level saving all the other skills apart from builders, replays attached. The real question is whether it can be done with just 1 builder. The 100% requirement, the land being littered with traps and the turnaround needed to use the left exit makes this more challenging.

Edit: Now down to 4. Didn't realise I had a basher left over in the 5 builder solution to bash underneath the first left trap.

[namida]

So, I decided to take a look at L3D in this challenge. While it probably won't be as interesting as the L1-type games, the large number of backroutes might at least make it somewhat interesting.

Here's some baseline suggestions for (most of) Fun.

Fun 1 "Take A Dive" - 1 turner
Fun 2 "That's Right" - 2 diggers (don't worry about crowd control, just use the diggers, and you'll save 4 more than required)
Fun 3 "The Bean Machine" - 3 builders
Fun 4 "It's A Run Around" - 1 turner, 2 diggers
Fun 5 "Bounce Bounce" - 7 turners
Fun 6 "It's A Blast" - 4 bombers
Fun 7 "Candyland Climber" - 1 bomber, 1 basher, 2 climbers (I did quickly try a go-under-the-cane route, but I can only save 3 that way, and at any rate still use all of these skills)

Fun 8 "Lemmings Inside" - 2 turners, 1 builder

A slight variation on the lose-2 solution completes the level with 1 blocker, 2 turners and 2 builders. The "normal" solution can be done without the blocker and with only 1 builder (at the cost of also needing a basher and 2 additional turners).

Fun 9 "A Shortcut Through The Forest" - 5 turners

The lose-5 solution uses only 5 turners. It is possible to avoid the builder by using the same off-the-path route near the end as the lose-5 solution, using turners to reach that point.

For the record, I did look into whether any improvements could be had by using the invisible blocks near the well, but didn't find anything useful.

Fun 10 "Castle Lemmalot" - 2 builders (This is simply the save-all solution)

Fun 11 "It's A Classic" - 2 blockers, 4 turners

The normal approach uses 5 blockers and 4 turners. This leaves 6 remaining turners, which can be used to replace three of the blockers with double-turners.

Fun 12 "Alpine Assault Course" - 1 turner, 5 bombers
Fun 13 "Tower Of Stone" - 13 turners, 2 builders, 20 floaters
Fun 14 "Slippery Maze" - 6 turners (using the invisible route)
Fun 15 "The M-A-Z-E" - 4 turners, 1 basher (I can find three different routes with these skills - one of which makes a huge improvement in terms of time taken - but none without them)
Fun 16 "Down The Middle We Go" - 4 turners, 1 builder, 1 digger
Fun 17 "Hole In Ten" - 1 blocker, 2 bashers, 1 floater
Fun 18 "Corkscrew Digger", Fun 19 "Attack Of The 50ft Lemmings" - (I'll leave these ones to the people who've found existing really-impressive solutions to these two levels, I suck at them)
Fun 20 "Alilemms" - 4 turners, 1 builder

[Pooty]

Fun 19 on 3D Lemmings is 2 turners.

Spoiler

The maximum save solution requires the use of 2 turners.
There's also a solution that makes use of the 50ft Lemming's right foot that requires just one cutting tool. Basher or digger work fine.

[namida]

Continuing with L3D, here's a start on Tricky.

Tricky 1 "Jelly Climber" - 2 turners, 8 climbers (this is just the normal solution, but letting two lemmings die instead of making them climbers)
Tricky 2 "Which Exit?" - 2 blockers
Tricky 3 "This Is The Army" - 1 bomber, 2 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner, 1 climber, 1 floater (basically just the normal solution, executed really carefully)
Tricky 4 "Fore!" - 3 turners, 2 builders, 1 miner

Tricky 5 "Breakout" - 1 turner, 2 bombers

The save-76 solution uses only 2 bombers. (If you've used 3, look for one that can be replaced with a turner.)

The 1 turner solution is a bit trickier; rather than trying to explain it, replay attached.

[Pooty]

Corkscrew Digger is currently 4 turners and 8 miners. 8 miners is the normal solution, and I see no way of improving on it at the moment. I have attached a replay for the 4 turner solution because it's quite messy.

Spoiler

Use the first 4 turners as per the normal solution. Increasing the release rate after a while helps with making the hole for the later lemmings to fall straight through to the exit. I found a way to make it work using a release rate of 45.

[Pooty]

Worked on the next 5 levels, and here's what I've come up with:

Tricky 6 "Lemmhanger" - 2 blockers, 5 turners, 2 builders, 1 basher (the digger is not required to pass the level)

Tricky 7 "Follow The Yellow Brick Road" - 6 turners, 4 builders, 1 basher, 1 digger

The blockers can be spared by building up to the entrance with a 6-step builder, then building from the bottom step to the top of the obstacle.
One digger is required at the beginning of the yellow path, and one basher is needed near the end of it. The rest of it can be cleared by various combinations of the other skills.
Release rate management can help you avoid using any climbers.

Tricky 8 "All Around the Watchtower" - 1 basher

The builder is not required in the solution, but it can be used to stop lemmings walking back past the entrance by building up to it. This trick allows you to avoid using the blocker, the bomber or the digger in separate solutions.

Tricky 9 "Land Ahoy" - 4 turners

Best-known solution uses 4 turners.
The bashers can be spared by building up the side of the boat closest to the exit, then using turners to get around the mud.
The builder can be spared by using a turner as a lemming is going up the sloped crate at the back of the boat, bashing through the rest of the crates, then using turners to get around the mud.

Tricky 10 "Tooten Lemming" - 5 turners, 3 builders, 1 basher, 1 digger

[namida]

I'll leave Tricky 11 for someone else, but for Tricky 12 "Dot To Dot", I suspect this route was already used in the max saved solution (I don't know for sure, I haven't tried to get max-saved on this one), which - without trying to save extra lemmings - uses 11 turners and 17 builders. (It is vaguely possible this route was overlooked, due to that it involves a frame-perfect builder assignment half way through - I knew the "skip from 4 to 9" solution a long time ago, but this one is "skip from 3 to 10" via the frame-perfect assignment.)

EDIT: Nevermind, the max saved solution - when adjusted to not worry about saving as many as possible - reduces this to 5 turners + 11 builders (additionally requiring either a 6th turner or a bomber, but since either is an option, that doesn't matter for this challenge - and that's if that extra skill is still needed at all when not worrying about saving the max).

[Pooty]

Finishing off the rest of Tricky. There could be room for improvement for some of these.

Tricky 11 "A Head Above the Rest" - 14 turners, 1 builder, 2 bashers

Tricky 13 "Shadow Maze" - 6 turners

Tricky 14 "Oh No! More Pyramids!" - 3 turners, 1 builder

Maximum saved solution makes basher and miner interchangeable.
A further turner can be spared by mining underneath the first deflector block on the second island.

Tricky 15 "Chocolate Drop" - 2 turners, 2 builders, 1 digger

Maximum saved solution uses two turners. To save enough lemmings to merely pass the level, you don't need to use the second digger. Also, the blocker in this solution can be switched for double turners.
The miner can be spared by having a lemming turn around on the island with the five chocolate pieces, then using a throwaway turner to stop the turned lemming from digging too far whilst creating the safety drop onto the exit. An example of this solution is attached to this post.

Tricky 16 "Lemlab" - 3 turners, 1 builder, 2 bashers
Tricky 17 "Garden Maze" - 4 turners, 1 bomber, 1 climber (digger not required)
Tricky 18 "Play Time" - 3 bashers, 1 digger, 1 climber (second climber not required)
Tricky 19 "Stilt Walkers" - 4 turners, 2 builders
Tricky 20 "King Coder's Tomb" - 5 turners, 1 builder, 1 digger