What skills can't you live without?

[chaos_defrost]

Holy what the

yea I bow out of all challenges like this in the future; these glitches are getting too advanced for me to follow  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/embarrassed.gif" alt=":-[" title="Embarrassed" class="smiley" />

[namida]

That doesnt' mean you can't try the non-glitch ones. For example, Tricky 30 didn't need glitches to show it doesn't require any specific skill - while still being challenging (from a strategic point of view, not an execution one) at the same time to acheive without miners.

[Proxima]

I've been trying Mayhem 3. The standard solution doesn't use the bomber and blocker, and that you can avoid the climber and floater is well-known. You could avoid the basher if you had more time http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" /> but the most I can save is 86%.

[namida]

86%? I can easily manage 96% with no basher. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> (With the last lemming being lost to time, not dying.) Or was that a typo?

100%, is an entirely different issue.

Also - define "standard". It was a LONG time until I found a no-blocker solution. (Attached is a replay of how I used to beat the level.)

[Proxima]

Remember, I can't view replays....

I can't define "standard" in general, but the standard solution to Mayhem 3 is the one shown http://tle.vaarties.nl/lemmings/solutions/amiga/mayhem/1/10/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">here. It's clear that you weren't meant to use a blocker because the fact that blockers can be released is meant to be still a surprise on Mayhem 20 (as indeed it was for me).

[namida]

Mayhem 3 completed with no bashers.

Will post details and pics in a sec...

[namida]

Okay, here's how it's done:

1) First lemming mines as shown in picture #1. Position must be pixel precise, so that a positioning glitch causes him to fall all the way down but the others to land on the middle platform as shown in picture #2.
2) Make the first lemming a floater.
3) Second lemming (first lemming on middle platform) digs about half way up the slope, third lemming blocks right behind him, as shown in picture #3 (if the third lemming doesn't block, he'll go over the top and drown. He'll be freed after the digger takes a few digs, but the delay is enough to stop him from being able to go up).
4) The floater builds over the trap, as shown (as if it was nessecary to show that, though...) in picture #4.
5) 100% saved, and with 9 seconds to spare, without using the basher, as shown in picture #5.

My question now is: Can you, by placing them with perfect timing, make a basher free a blocker but still turn around on him (by placing the blocker in the mid-bash higher area, the part that you put new bashers in for the trick used to beat Fun 12/14 with bashers only)? If so, then it's possible without the digger (but using the basher instead), thus making the miner and the builder the only compulsory skills for this level (and that's assuming we don't find solutions without them). No way I'm going to try this myself, at least not until I get confirmation that it's at least possible in general.

[ccexplore]

I'll suggest a starting point of 8 builders for Tricky 14, just so we can get a total there (which I will add in shortly).

You can put in a real result for that level now.  Here is Tricky 14 with 4 builders.  This better be optimal given how much work it took.

The zip file includes a single screenshot although it probably isn't enough to convey the full solution; PM me if you can't use Lemmix replays and I'll do my best to explain it.  If anyone wants to attempt it themselves, here's an important hint:

Spoiler

There's a point in the solution where you need to use the Tame 20 trick against a wall that's only 4 pixels wide, just barely wide enough to support the climbing without the lemming falling off the wall.  But for that to work, the lemming needs to be pushed into the wall an exact distance, which means you need to time the freeing of the blocker precisely.

[ccexplore]

My question now is: Can you, by placing them with perfect timing, make a basher free a blocker but still turn around on him (by placing the blocker in the mid-bash higher area, the part that you put new bashers in for the trick used to beat Fun 12/14 with bashers only)?

The answer is "no" as far as I know.  The basher doesn't feel the effects of blockers (or any other trigger areas) until he starts moving, and he doesn't start moving until well after he completes the terrain removal associated with the bash stroke.  So the blocker will be freed long before the basher starts moving.

[namida]

Okay. Well even so, eliminating the basher is pretty good.

I'm still trying to decide which is my best acheivement in this topic... Tricky 12, Tricky 30, or this one...

[ccexplore]

Here's a first crack at Mayhem 2, with 6 builders.  Anyone who wants to do better will have to work out a way starting from the bottom of the pillar.

[ccexplore]

I think I can get Taxing 16 out of the way now.  I've previously shown that it can be done without blockers and bombers (100% solution), and (separate solution) without floaters.  The attached solution attempts to minimize builders (down to 7).  So the current result for the level is "7 builders".

[ccexplore]

Taxing 21's another level that ends up with "none":

- the standard solution doesn't use floaters, blockers, bombers, or bashers (don't start building at the place shown in the picture, but more about 7 pixels away from the edge, and the builder will naturally stop at the right place).

- attached's a solution that doesn't use climbers or miners.

- I also mentioned on the old old forums of a solution that doesn't use builders.  I don't have a replay ready at the moment, but you should be able to extrapolate the solution based on the no-climber-no-miner solution.

- and of course, you can eliminate the digger in the standard solution by mining towards the steel instead to turn around.

[ccexplore]

yea I bow out of all challenges like this in the future; these glitches are getting too advanced for me to follow  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/embarrassed.gif" alt=":-[" title="Embarrassed" class="smiley" />

Another thing to keep in mind is that sometimes you can achieve the same results without using glitches.  For example, here're the Fun 23 results (no builders, and separately no bashers) without the Tame 20 trick (nor any climbers nor exploders, for that matter).  Both are glitch-free under a reasonable definition of "glitches", or at least pretty close to it.  Further reductions in certain types of skills are probably possible; for example, the one without bashers can be modified to use only miners and builders while still saving 100%.

(Screenshot include in zip file for those who can't use Lemmix replays.)

[ccexplore]

Taxing 9: "none"

- a well-known solution only uses a digger, a floater, and a miner.  So climbers, bombers, blockers, builders and bashers are optional.

- in the same solution above, instead of using the miner, you can use a blocker, then free him with the 2nd digger, a basher, and a builders (or 2 climbers).

- to avoid the floater, have both the 1st and 2nd lemming dig separate but close-together tunnels.  Stop the digging with builders.  Have the lemming from the right tunnel mine left to free everyone.

- finally, to avoid the digger, see attached solution.