What levels cannot be beaten with their default release rates?

[Dullstar]

Another challenge thread, guys!  I will do my best to keep a good list up this time.

Some levels do not give enough time for you to not bother increasing the release rate.  What levels are they?  I believe the Just a Minute levels fall into this category, but please don't jump to conclusions without testing.

LEVELS THAT CANNOT BE BEATEN WITH DEFAULT RELEASE RATE

Heaven Can Wait (We Hope!!!)
Just a Minute (both)
We all fall down (Taxing, Mayhem)

[Dullstar]

I have tested up to Heaven Can Wait (We Hope!!!) and that is the only one I have found not to work...

[chaos_defrost]

Taxing 24 I id that when bored and I got smaked up0 by the time resctrictions

[namida]

Flow Control is the most obvious answer...





...or is it?
Not only did I manage to beat it at the default release rate, but I did so saving 71%! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

[Clam]

What we need are some snappy sub-headings for these challenge threads.

This thread: "Don't touch that dial."

 http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

[ccexplore]

Taxing 24 I id that when bored and I got smaked up0 by the time resctrictions

Taxing 24 can be beaten (100% even, there's comfortably enough time) if you build a wall to block off the crowd from heading too far right.

Taxing 25 on Lemmix has the last required lemming in the middle of exiting when time's up.  This means on DOS Lemmings with the pause trick, it can be beaten.

I've confirmed Taxing 28 is possible (there's still 14 seconds left when the last lemming exits), and Taxing 30 (and hence Mayhem 11) is definitely not possible (only 45 lemmings exited).  I haven't tested any other levels in Taxing yet.

[Dullstar]

Well, so far the only one that has made the list is Heaven Can Wait (We Hope!!!)

Not all the challenge threads make big lists!  This one is mainly for what can't be beaten on the default release rates.  However, keep the default release rate information and replays flowing, because sometimes the level is beatable with a backroute!

Okay, so we COULD do the levels that CAN be beaten with the default release rates, but that would be a longer list, displaying the same information, just in a different.

[Minim]

All the levels with a release rate 99 is out of the question in your case, but I think a better topic would be "How many levels can't be beaten with a stuck 1 release rate" although it takes time editing levels, it gives a more brief idea on 1) Number of lemmings out and 2) How long it takes for the required number to come out. A lot of "Oh No more lemmings" levels have a 1 release rate. Why don't you have a go at those instead? The time limit in OhNo is stricter than the Original.

[Dullstar]

We can do that in a separate thread, provided you do not mind.

[Minim]

Can't be bothered http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />. Your topic is very similar and it's going to take ages for my proposal to work.

[Proxima]

Well, so far the only one that has made the list is Heaven Can Wait (We Hope!!!)

That's not true, ccexplore added the Taxing and Mayhem "We all fall down" levels. I can add to that both Just a Minutes; even on the Mac, which has a very generous timer, only half the lemmings have entered the level when the time expires.

[ccexplore]

Well, so far the only one that has made the list is Heaven Can Wait (We Hope!!!)

Read my post again--We All Fall Down in Taxing and Mayhem also makes the list.

One thing you can do to eliminate levels for which at the default RR, you can't even get the last lemming entering the level on time, is by the following rough calculation:

((99 - RR) / 2 + 4) * (number of lemmings - 1) / 17 = number of seconds elapsed when last lemming enters

(RR needs to be odd in the formula above.  So if RR is 50, use 51.)

This is not a totally accurate calculation, and obviously it takes time between last lemming entering the level and exiting it.  However, if the number of seconds it takes is much more than the level gives you, then you know it's impossible.

(Some level doesn't require you to save 100%, so "number of lemmings" in that case would be minimum number of lemmings you need to save.)

Using this formula for example, you'll find that at the default RR, it'll take more than 2 minutes before the last lemming can enter in "Just a Minute" and "Just a Minute (Part 2)".

[Proxima]

Just tested Taxing 7, 8, 16, 19 and 22 on the Mac. All finish with over 30 seconds left, so I believe they will be possible on other versions.

Taxing 11 is certainly possible -- indeed, my preferred solution to the level is to leave the RR unchanged, so that the last lemming out can free the crowd (much easier than hoping you get one facing the right way for a builder).

All other Taxing levels are obviously possible, either because of high RR, high time limit or small number of lemmings or a combination.

The only Mayhem level not mentioned yet that needs testing is Level 15, The Fast Food Kitchen. This is possible on the Mac with 10 seconds to spare. If I've got ccexplore's above formula right, on the version it refers to the last lemming would have a mere 14 seconds to get to the exit, which I doubt is enough.

[ccexplore]

If I've got ccexplore's above formula right, on the version it refers to the last lemming would have a mere 14 seconds to get to the exit, which I doubt is enough.

Interesting, I just noticed that the DOS version of this level not only gives you 3 minutes, but the required % is only 75, whereas according to the Lemmings Encyclopedia, the Amiga has 2 minutes and 96% (lose 4 out of 100).  I didn't realize the difference is that dramatic, really have to wonder now if they made a mistake in the DOS version with the requirements.  How much are you required to save on the Mac?

[Proxima]

95% (lose 4 of 80). Very interesting. So this level is definitely possible (for this challenge) on the DOS version but impossible on the Amiga.