The level design game!

ccexplore · September 05, 2009, 02:15:33 AM

Um, Insane Steve, are you going to confirm or reject my level?

I'm absolutely fine with you updating the rules to remove the admittedly cheated way I did your challenge; in fact, I think even if you do accept my level for you challenge, I'm probably going to just make the next challenge be the same thing with the following rule clarification:

- When you solve the level the second time around, the pair of 2 skills used in each quadrant cannot be the same as the 2 skills used in any of the 4 qudarants of your first solution.

So for example, if one solution to your level involves making the lemming an athlete in one of the quadrants, then in the second solution, you are not allowed to use the climber and floater together in any one of the quadrants. Instead, the quadrant where you used the climber in your 2nd solution would need to use a non-floater skill, and the floater quadrant in your 2nd solution would need to use a non-climber skill.

To make things easier, you don't have to actually enforce this rule across all possible solutions. As long as you find two solutions to your level that follow the rule above as stated, I don't care that there are additional solutions that don't comply with the rule above (but they still need to comply with other rules, like each quadrant must be solvable with exactly 2 skills).

chaos_defrost · September 05, 2009, 02:32:36 AM

Yea that works, wasn't what I meant but I guess clarification would have been prudent

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

I'll see if I can come up with a variant that follows the new addition. If I can get Lemmix running

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />

Clam · September 05, 2009, 02:45:55 AM

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=161.msg4326#msg4326">Quote from: ccexplore on 2009-09-04 17:27:39

You'd notice that two of the quadrants are exact repeats of the other two (don't tell me you didn't see this coming http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />)

I saw it coming. Steve wouldn't answer my questions though so I wasn't sure what to do

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/undecided.gif" alt=":-\" title="Undecided" class="smiley" />. Anyway, I'm busy trying to make my next challenge work (plus some non-lemmings stuff that I should be doing instead

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" />) so I might leave this for a while.

chaos_defrost · September 05, 2009, 03:29:48 AM

Sorry about that, I didn't even see your post for some reason.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />

Four parts don't have to be the same size, or arranged in a box like Havoc 14. You do need EXACTLY 2 skills for each section. It is preferable if there's no one/zero skill backroutes in the minilevels.

Fernito · September 05, 2009, 04:08:15 AM

So, what challenge are we doing? The Insane Steve's one or ccexplore's modification of Insane Steve's?

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />

chaos_defrost · September 05, 2009, 04:09:37 AM

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=161.msg4352#msg4352">Quote from: Fernito on 2009-09-04 22:08:15

So, what challenge are we doing? The Insane Steve's one or ccexplore's modification of Insane Steve's? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />

ccexplore already did the one that I put up, just in a somewhat obvious way that I missed when I put it up.

ccexplore · September 06, 2009, 01:52:33 AM

Wow, I think I can hear pins getting dropped here.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/shocked.gif" alt=":o" title="Shocked" class="smiley" />

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> I'll assume everyone's just busy with real-life stuff this weekend. I'll give it another day or two I guess.

Here're some hints for the current challenge (ie. my modification of Insane Steve's) in case someone's actually struggling with it (I didn't think it was that hard):

Quote from: hints

- I think the easiest way to go about this is to design your quadrants so that there are two distinct paths to the exit that involve different skills. For example, maybe you start up high and the exit's at the bottom, and you can either approach the exit from its left or from its right, but doing so requires you to use different skills.
- A likely source of backroutes for these sorts of level is if you manage to use additional skills in one quadrant to save more than required in it, to the point that you can "skip" another quadrant entirely or skipping most of the lemmings you would otherwise need to have saved. Watch out for that.

And yes, I've made my level for this one so I know it's possible.

Fernito · September 06, 2009, 02:16:53 AM

I made some sketches for your challenge today, but I finally gave up. I'll give it a try tomorrow though

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

ccexplore · September 08, 2009, 01:18:38 AM

Well, it's been well over 48 hours and to my surprise, no one got the current challenge, so I guess it'll become "extra credit" or something.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" />

I'll make this open floor now so feel free to jump in with the next one. And let me know how long (if) I should wait before I post my own level for the current challenge.

Dullstar · September 08, 2009, 02:18:59 AM

I would like a shot at this.

The level must have at least 1 backroute that isn't hard to find but isn't obvious, either. By the way, I request to see the .lvl files, please, that way I don't have anyone ripping off the "intentional backroute" level I posted in a different thread. You need to describe the intended solution and the backroute, using the spoiler code, just so I can tell when I test the lvl for the criteria if it's something I overlooked. The only glitch allowed is direct drop. One more thing - NO HIDDEN TRAPS!!! (regular traps are okay, though).

I have a level for this... umm... 5 actually. I will upload one of them. Of course, I'm not uploaded again the one I already uploaded.

ccexplore · September 08, 2009, 03:06:24 AM

Your criteria might be a little too vague for this game. For example, it's not clear to me whether people will be in agreement with you over what "isn't hard to find but isn't obvious".

Also, it's quite likely that someone can easily find a level from the official games (Lemmings, ONML, etc.) that will satisfy your criteria. Even if you ban those levels, someone could probably create a level based off of an existing level, and then we'd end up with no agreement over how much it must differ from an existing level to count.

Clam · September 08, 2009, 05:36:47 AM

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=161.msg4554#msg4554">Quote from: ccexplore on 2009-09-07 19:18:38

Well, it's been well over 48 hours and to my surprise, no one got the current challenge, so I guess it'll become "extra credit" or something. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" />

Like you suggested earlier, RL gets in the way sometimes. Even for me (yes, it's rare, but it happens).

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=161.msg4564#msg4564">Quote from: ccexplore on 2009-09-07 21:06:24

Also, it's quite likely that someone can easily find a level from the official games (Lemmings, ONML, etc.) that will satisfy your criteria. Even if you ban those levels, someone could probably create a level based off of an existing level, and then we'd end up with no agreement over how much it must differ from an existing level to count.

There's a reason why I put this rule in place. I want to push this in a new direction, rather than just rehashing stuff that's been done before. And "accidental backroutes" have most certainly been done before.

ccexplore · September 08, 2009, 08:58:18 AM

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=161.msg4567#msg4567">Quote from: Clam Spammer on 2009-09-07 23:36:47

Like you suggested earlier, RL gets in the way sometimes. Even for me (yes, it's rare, but it happens).

Still, you weren't the only one here. Do they celebrate Labor Day in NZ too? It was Labor Day weekend in the US but I don't know how many countries celebrate this holiday.

Clam · September 08, 2009, 09:13:08 AM

Yes, we have a Labour day... in October.

Dullstar · September 08, 2009, 10:04:03 PM

*this portion of the post has been removed. Thank you*

Okay, let me clarify things...

* The backroute must not be too hard to find, but not obvious... for example, I have made a level in which you COULD get through by going to the top of the one way obstacle and bashing through [the "wrong" way, in other words what the game shouldn't let you do], due to the end of the trigger areas. It's not obvious, but if you look, you should notice it.

* Give the lvl file, you may use another level for inspiration, but you may not copy any one else's, even if you change skill amounts or slightly move the terrain.

* To make sure I haven't overlooked something, make sure to put the intended solution and the backroute in hidden text with the SPOILER TAG.

* You may provide a Lemmix replay, with CustLemm view mode (preferably).