The level design game!

[Clam]

I think ccexplore's "small hint" should serve as a mantra for this thread. Level designing is only as difficult as you want to make it http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />


New challenge http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />

• One lemming
• To save this lemming, you have to use the miner trick at least 3 times, on the same piece of terrain and in the same direction each time. By "piece of terrain", I don't mean it has to be the same terrain object, but it shouldn't make any real difference which part of this terrain you fall through. EDIT: Evidently this needs further clarification. See my post below.

In case you don't know about the miner trick, here is a nice "before and after" screenshot to demonstrate it. Note that the ground the miner stands on is one pixel thick. If you turn the miner into a blocker just as it starts to swing its axe forwards, it will fall through the terrain without breaking it. Another tip (not essential, but useful to know at least): if the ground is one pixel thick to start with, you can still make this trick work! Assign the miner skill, and then assign the blocker skill VERY quickly afterwards.

[Yawg]

Got it  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />

If this solution gets a pass, I'll just leave the next challenge to whoever steps up. This puzzle kept me up an hour later than I intended, and since its now 2:30 AM where I live, I'm going to sleep.

[Clam]

Two problems here:

1) You can mine into the steel to turn around. This lets you cut out most of the level.
2) This shows that I wasn't clear enough about the position requirement of the miner trick. What I mean here is that you miner-glitch through a piece of terrain, and then you come back to the same place and miner-glitch through it again.

[Yawg]

Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking with the steel...thats a pretty obvious flaw. And I admit I was a little confused by the other requirement. Makes perfect sense now, though I have absolutely no idea how to go about doing it.

[Fernito]

OK, here's my try. I believed it was perfect, but at the last minute I discovered a backroute, which makes me think that your challenge is not possible http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" />

Ignore the last thing! Seems like I solved it http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> (play with Custom Lemmings mechanics).

[chaos_defrost]

Off topic: What programs are you using to make Lemmings levels nowadays? Lemmix? And how do you replay levels and make a file out of them?

I'll throw a challenge into the ring, if there's a lull in the challenges someone can maybe pick it up:

Deign a level with 4 entrances and 4 exits, set up like Havoc 14 in 4 groups so no one in one group can interact with any other group.

Level must use one of each skill. No restrictions on #of lemmings, and to be saved except that no more than 1 lemming can die in each section and at least one lemming must be saved in each section.

In solving the level, exactly 2 skills much be used to solve each quadrant's mini-puzzle.

After doing that, you must solve the level again, with the same restrictions, except you can't use a skill in a quadrant you used it in last time. So if you used a blocker and a digger in Q1, you have to use two of the other 6 skills for the 2nd solution.

[Fernito]

Off topic: What programs are you using to make Lemmings levels nowadays? Lemmix? And how do you replay levels and make a file out of them?

For making my levels I use Lemedit, but for making challenge levels I use Lemmix, since you can test them on the run.

To make replays, just play the level with the playtest feature (F2), and when the last lemming is about to reach the exit press "U". That'll save your replay in the replays folder. To playback a replay, playtest the level in Lemmix, then press Shift+R and select the replay you want to playback in the window that just popped up. That's all, I hope I made it clear enough http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

I'll throw a challenge into the ring, if there's a lull in the challenges someone can maybe pick it up

That's a nice challenge. Let's wait until Clam Spammer confirms if my level meets the requirements. If so, we can continue with your challenge http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

[Clam]

OK, here's my try.

Very nice. I like the way you force the miner trick with the miner's lower safe-fall distance. My version (attached) makes you come back to the start a fourth time and then mine through the terrain.

[Fernito]

Amazing solution  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> but, I have a question...

Wasn't a requirement that the 3 miner-glitches were in the same place?

http://img200.imageshack.us/i/lemmq.jpg/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/6931/lemmq.jpg" alt="" class="bbc_img" />

As you can see, I can finish the level making the trick in 3 different places. My solution forces you to make it in the same place all three times.

I don't know, it's just a question. I don't know if it was actually part of the requirements  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

[Clam]

Sorry if this confused you (evidently it did... oops). In my initial criteria for the challenge, I said:

By "piece of terrain", I don't mean it has to be the same terrain object, but it shouldn't make any real difference which part of this terrain you fall through.

In this case, it doesn't make any difference in terms of the solution whether you mine at the left side of this platform, or the right, or somewhere in between. The outcome is the same regardless.

[Fernito]

haha, actually one of the toughest things was making it in that way that you were forced to do the trick in the same place three times http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Well, it was my fault, no need to say sorry http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

Anyway, challenge accomplished? If so, we can go with Insane Steve's challenge.

[Clam]

Yep, go for it.


A couple of things I'd like to clear up about the new challenge:

In solving the level, exactly 2 skills much be used to solve each quadrant's mini-puzzle.

Does this mean each quadrant has to be impossible to solve with one skill (or no skills)?

Deign a level with 4 entrances and 4 exits, set up like Havoc 14 in 4 groups so no one in one group can interact with any other group.

How closely do you have to follow the Havoc 14 design? Do you want the rectangular arrangement with steel separating the four parts, or is it okay to (say) have four mini-levels spread out across the map? Also, do the four parts have to be the same size?

Also I should mention that you can have some interaction between groups in Havoc 14. You can get a climber stuck in the wall and then bash out when it reaches the top part. Of course, you can't actually win the level by doing that. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> With one of each skill this should be less of a problem.

[ccexplore]

After doing that, you must solve the level again, with the same restrictions, except you can't use a skill in a quadrant you used it in last time. So if you used a blocker and a digger in Q1, you have to use two of the other 6 skills for the 2nd solution.

This may need some clarification.  Does it mean that there can only be exactly two ways to solve each quadrant, or merely that there are at least two ways using totally different skills to solve each quadrant?  I'm assuming the latter at this point.

[chaos_defrost]

The latter, yea. I don't think this is possible if you restrict each area to EXACTLY two solutions.

[ccexplore]

Here you go then.  The zip file includes the level, a Lemmix replay (w/ CustLemm mechanics), and a screenshot of what the level looks like.  You'd notice that two of the quadrants are exact repeats of the other two (don't tell me you didn't see this coming http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />), so your second solution is simply to swap the solutions between the copies.  Below is the solution in English:

Leftmost quadrant:  1st lemming out blocks immediately when land.  2nd lemming out will explode, which will both break through the wall and free your blocker.
2nd quadrant from left:  1st lemming out drops down and build towards the wall, then mine through it.
3rd quadrant from left:  make the lemming an athlete.
rightmost quadrant:  dig down and bash right.