The level design game!

[Yawg]

Don't know if this complies with ccexplore's challenge rules.

It looks like this is pretty close, but you can also solve it with only 1 bridge which results in only 4 groups on lemmings (2 groups die, 2 live).

This could probably be fixed by adjusting the number of gaps though.

[ccexplore]

Don't know if this complies with ccexplore's challenge rules.

It looks like this is pretty close, but you can also solve it with only 1 bridge which results in only 4 groups on lemmings (2 groups die, 2 live).

This could probably be fixed by adjusting the number of gaps though.

Another problem with your current level, although I'm sure you can fix it, is that the builder himself can be saved, and so if you have the first lemming as builder, he will not die with the next few lemmings as required by the rule.

[Fernito]

It looks like this is pretty close, but you can also solve it with only 1 bridge which results in only 4 groups on lemmings (2 groups die, 2 live).

This could probably be fixed by adjusting the number of gaps though.

But didn't the rule that that it must be at least 5 groups?

Another problem with your current level, although I'm sure you can fix it, is that the builder himself can be saved, and so if you have the first lemming as builder, he will not die with the next few lemmings as required by the rule.

But I saved the builder! I don't understand, sorry http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" />

[Clam]

I think you have to not save the builder (i.e. saving that lemming has to be impossible). I haven't looked at your level yet (since I'm working on my own design) so I don't know the details of your case.

[ccexplore]

But didn't the rule that that it must be at least 5 groups?

Yes, and this means every possible solution to the level (excluding nuke glitches, so you don't have to worry about that) must create at least 5 groups.  If any solution exists to your level where you end up with 4 or less groups yet still passes the level's % required, then the level does not satisfy the requirement of my challenge.

Another problem with your current level, although I'm sure you can fix it, is that the builder himself can be saved, and so if you have the first lemming as builder, he will not die with the next few lemmings as required by the rule.

But I saved the builder! I don't understand, sorry http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" />

Remember, we're counting consecutive lemmings in terms of when they come out of the entrance trapdoor, not when they reach the exit.  So if you have the first lemming build and then he finishes and drops into the crowd, he is still the first lemming in my rules.

So right now in your level, if I make the first lemming out build at the right location, he will survive with the crowd, while the next few lemmings out will die while the bridge is not yet ready.  As a result, you end up with the 1st lemming saved, while the 2nd, 3rd, etc. lemmings are killed.  Whereas in my rules, the 1st 5 lemmings out must die in any solution to the level.

[Fernito]

Oh yes, now I got it. Sorry!

I'll see how I can fix it.

[Fernito]

Seems like I solved ccexplore's challenge http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" /> (I hope).

[ccexplore]

Unfortunately, there still exists a solution to your level that does not follow the requirements.

(The attached replay uses CustLemm mechanics; the exact same solution works in DOS Lemmings as well, if you want I can make a replay for that.)

Perhaps a very small hint for anyone attempting my challenge: 

keep it simple!!!

[ccexplore]

To avoid creating too much work for myself, the best I can think of right now is to tell you to wait for confirmation before posting a new challenge - but I really don't want to, since this rule tends to cause games to stagnate. I'm open to suggestions here.

Perhaps we could impose a certain amount of time we must wait before someone can post the next challenge, kinda like the "bonus question" system back on the now defunct "quiz game" thread.  If someone solved the challenge before time's up, then they get to post the next challenge.  If no one solved it within the time limit, then it's basically open floor.  I haven't decided yet what the rule is when someone finally solves an old challenge that already "expired" its time limit--whether the solver gets to post a new challenge, or whether he needs to wait some amount of time or something.

[Clam]

Thanks cc, I was about to post my own replay but I guess I won't have to now.

I'll admit, the condition of "any solution" is a tough one. I think the problem with your level is that there are too many slightly different ways to solve it, and this means there are many ways to group the lemmings - some of which are invalid.


Here is my attempt at this challenge. The solution is quite obvious so I won't post a replay.

If this is okay, then I'll post my new challenge shortly.

[ccexplore]

Here is my attempt at this challenge. The solution is quite obvious so I won't post a replay.

That's a good sign for my challenge, since as you've reasoned, the more complicated the intended solution is in your level, the more likely you can turn it into something that doesn't follow the rules.  That's why I apologize in advance for the resulting levels since I expect them to be worthless for people to actually solve.

I've looked over your level, and I have convinced myself that your level does satisfy all the rules of my challenge.  Good job! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> Go ahead with the next challenge.

Attach is mine.  In my defense, even though the level itself is undoubtedly lame, the concept behind it of using a single skill to segregate one stream of lemmings into multiple groups, that is probably something you can make use of in real levels.

[Fernito]

Ohh, I'm late http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" /> I'll post my solution to ccexplore's challenge anyway.

[Fernito]

Just played both ccexplore's and Clam's version of the challenge. I have to admit that you guys had pretty clever ideas! Congratulations!  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />

[Clam]

Perhaps we could impose a certain amount of time we must wait before someone can post the next challenge, kinda like the "bonus question" system back on the now defunct "quiz game" thread.  If someone solved the challenge before time's up, then they get to post the next challenge.  If no one solved it within the time limit, then it's basically open floor.  I haven't decided yet what the rule is when someone finally solves an old challenge that already "expired" its time limit--whether the solver gets to post a new challenge, or whether he needs to wait some amount of time or something.

I'd suggest 48 hours as a good timeframe for this system.

My greater concern at this point is whether or not we need confirmation before posting a new challenge. If we allow new challenges to be posted without confirmation, then inevitably people will post challenges without having successfully completed one (as has already happened). When that happens, there's nothing you can do to fix it. As such, I think confirmation should be required.

[Yawg]

These changes seem fair, and should keep things moving smoothly. I'm willing to play by em  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />