The level design game!

[ccexplore]

I assume blocking through walls means pushing lemmings through a wall using a blocker. Otherwise my level could be considered requiring 'blocking through a ceiling'.

Yeah, I meant pushing lemmings through a wall.

Both levels are acceptable as far as I can tell. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />.

where's your level?

[Clam]

Ah yes, my own version...

This is how to do it without using a forced 99 release rate.

[ccexplore]

Nice.

I know nuke counterexamples doesn't count in your challenge, but here's a nuke counterexample solution for your level that saves 6 with 2 blockers used.  Though I'm guessing the solution can be easily eliminated if you (for example) move the exit sufficiently left from the entrance.

[ccexplore]

There's still namida's challenge open which got omitted as minimac posted a challenge without solving the previous one. I suggest to use it when the next 'open floor' occurs.

I just http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=161.msg5071#msg5071" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">looked it up again.  I'm surprised no one tackled that one.  I remembered peeking at it and thinking about it just before I went on vacation, and came up with something (not creating the level per se, but at least have a concrete idea of how to make the level) within minutes.  But I didn't want to solve the challenge at that time because I didn't have time to come up with a new challenge or possibly even making the level for namida's challenge (because of the vacation etc.)

I also forgot what I came up with now http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/XD.gif" alt=":XD:" title="XD" class="smiley" />, though I'm confident that if I were to put the slightest bit of effort it wouldn't take long for me to recover what I came up with, if someone else doesn't beat me to it. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" class="smiley" />

[I think I got it, but since it's not clear right now which challenge we are doing next, and since this one shouldn't take long anyway, I'll sit out namida's challenge for now.  If I have time later I'll make and post my level.]

[geoo]

I'm pretty certain that namida's challenge can be extended to 27 combinations of two skills, likely even all 28.
In fact, I think that's an idea for follow-up challenge; but right now we're in over-supply of challenges, so I guess I'll leave it for later (and have the time to actually set up a level for it, though I think it's easier than my current challenge).

I guess as soon as someone calls open-floor, we're back to one challenge again.
Though actually, it doesn't seem to harm having two challenges running simultaneously...

[chaos_defrost]

Well, here's a contribution to the "as many 2 skill combos as possible" challenge. I actually don't know what solutions are possible.

It's missing a lot of the climber solutions and I'm trying to work them in, but was wondering if any of you had ideas.

Also it's ugly  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

[Proxima]

Here's my submission.

[Pooty]

Well, here's a contribution to the "as many 2 skill combos as possible" challenge. I actually don't know what solutions are possible.

It's missing a lot of the climber solutions and I'm trying to work them in, but was wondering if any of you had ideas.

Also it's ugly  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

I haven't noticed a problem with your level yet. I have found exactly eight solutions that I don't regard as skill wasting:

Floater & Miner
Floater & Digger
Blocker & Builder
Blocker & Basher
Blocker & Miner
Blocker & Digger
Builder & Digger
Miner & Digger

Everything except Climbers and Bombers have been used, which is six out of eight, and satisfies the criteria of the challenge.

There's only one thing that I need clarifying. Namida stated that using Blockers solely to time the Bomber counts as skill wasting. Does that mean that all cases of skill wasting are illegal, or just that one? The reason I ask is because the level can be solved using just one Bomber, so I discarded all solutions that use that skill.

[geoo]

(EDIT: In reply to the above post: I initially thought the skill wasting rule could be simplified into 'allow no 1 skill solutions', though this example shows that this isn't quite true, at least going by the original formulation).

Both levels actually allow for a one-skill solution: (as by now already pointed out by Pooty) in Insane Steve's level you can use a bomber exploding slightly after falling off the ledge to lower the fall by a sufficient height.
I think making a save 1/2 level is easier for this as you can design routes so that you only have to save the floater/climber.
In Proxima's level you can use a bomber or a miner at the very right of the starting platform to get to the exit using only one skill.

I got a level now that allows for all 28 skill combinations (barring backroutes), not sure whether it's still worth its own challenge though; namida's challenge seems to have already turned into an optimisation challenge which turned out to be pretty interesting.

[Proxima]

In Proxima's level you can use a bomber or a miner at the very right of the starting platform to get to the exit using only one skill.

Ah well, that's easily remedied -- I can move the two vertical posts further apart. I originally put them close to allow the climber/bomber solution but further development of the level resulted in there being a completely different way to solve it with those skills anyway.

[chaos_defrost]

ok, I just need to increase the fall height, no big deal really.

Also, I think that dropping the RR enough so Lemming 3 can be trapped in a digger pit, then putting steel at the bottom of the big ledge might add a LOT more possible wasteless solutions, but I don't really want to figure out how to add climber/bomber solutions and if geoo has a 28 combo solution it's a bit moot  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

EDIT: getting as many possible of the 56 3-skill solutions might be a ridiculous challenge, maybe save that for much later?

[geoo]

Ok, I guess I should simply post my level to namida's challenge then.

In order not to have this thread sink into oblivion, I'll degrade my current challenge into a bonus challenge (or just post my solution if you wish), because - to be honest - the level it yielded is pretty complicated and ugly. I think this kind of option was discussed on page 3, so I hope no-one minds.

I suggest that Insane Steve or Proxima come up with the next challenge; if neither of you want, I can provide a one as well.

[Proxima]

Okay, I have a challenge.

• Exactly 3 lemmings; 100% required
• Exactly two trapdoors and one exit
• The lemmings must be separated, in the sense that if no skills are assigned the lemming from the one-lemming trapdoor will never reach a location reached by the other two
• Exactly 1 climber, 0 floaters, bombers, blockers; at least three of the last four skill types must be non-zero and they must total at least 5
• There must not be any solution in which the isolated lemming is ever given a skill
• If one floater were added to the level (with nothing else changed) there would be a solution in which the isolated lemming was given at least one non-floater skill

Hope my conditions are clear enough; ask me if you have any questions.

[chaos_defrost]

Ok, shouldn't be too hard to see my intended reason why the separate Lemming can't be assigned skills. And, the floater solution is pretty obvious. If you find something wrong with this let me know and I can change it.

It requires 2 pixel-perfect edge builds, sorry about that  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" />

EDIT: found a backroute, won't be too hard to fix, let me edit and re-up.
EDIT2: backroute fixed, I think.

[Proxima]

Wow, that was fast http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> Do you want to set the next challenge?