Top 5, Bottom 5

[Minim]

5-1 is cooming

When, Giga, when? We've waited two weeks to see what your least favourites were. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/angry.gif" alt=">" title="Angry" class="smiley" /> I wouldn't accept your list because you only list your least favourites in a specific range, rather than the top 5 losers (and winners). You know that this is a Top 5, bottom 5 thread don't you?

I may put up some Holiday lemmings levels soon, and see which ones are my favourites.

[namida]

Don't forget that Giga is a 12 year old who thinks everyone shares his opinions on how things should be done... >_>

[Minim]

OK, My Holiday Top 5 and Bottom 5 are here:

Top 5
5: Frost 4: Separate Ways: Lots of ways to do this, even with just 4 skills, which makes the level better than it actually is.

4: Hail 11: Emmings (No L) Clever title, as No L becomes Noel. Has a good range of solutions here as well.

3: Frost 2: Ski Jump!: Lots of solutions here. You don't have to pick just floaters!

2: Hail 1: Go Thataway!: Interesting. Just doing it the dirty way by bombing down the floor and bashing won't get you through, but lateral thinking will lead you to success.

1: Hail 6: Surprise Package: It's just random how many lemmings you can get, and randomness is what I enjoy. Well designed and unique execution with a nuke feature that doesn't play a part in any other Holiday lemmings level.

Bottom 5
5: Blitz 1: Oogilemming!: Plain stupid and long as well, and having you to click 25 lemmings climbers. This is too much for a starter level.

4: Flurry 4: Lemmings tracks in the snow!: Absolutely derivative actions from the last level. There is just no point.

3: Flurry 10: 32 Lemmings below zero: Generous skills, but I think Hail 3 is better than this stupid crap. Too dark, low scenery and too long to wait before the next skill comes in to play.

2: Blitz 3: Check your Hints!: Once you found the exit, you found it. Nothing different applies here.

1: Flurry 8: Vacation in Gemland: Hey, where did this come from? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh?" class="smiley" /> They come here and have a hard time with limited skills, limited time, and 100%. Disrupts the learning curve by a long way, and also, it's a pretty but dark vacation.

Hehe, I've just realised, all the levels I hate are H93 levels, and the ones I love are H94 levels. Go Frost and Hail! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />

[Adam]

I'm making an executive decision to resurrect this thread from the dead, as we have some new members who haven't done this before, we probably have some members whose opinions have changed in the past 18 months-or-so, and it's a way for me to test out our new "Spell Check" button.

I've only properly played the Master System version of Lemmings, so I shall only do top/bottom five for this port.

Bottom Five
5: Come On Over To My Place - Embarrassing backroute, meaning that this level is pointless.
4: King of the Castle - 20 builders and no way to block lemmings makes this level VERY annoying when trying to get close to 100%
3: We All Fall Down (Mayhem) - 20 lemmings is the Master System's limit. Therefore, there's no great difficulty.
2: Hunt the Nessy - It's a building level. A tedious building level. Good music, though.
1: All or Nothing - Pot luck. 'nuff said.

Top Five
5: It's Hero Time - This level is a legendary Lemmings level, it has to be said. I like it for similar reasons to most people.
4: Menacing (Lemming Lament) - One of very few levels to implement the climb-build-mine technique, and t does it so well.
3: Take a Running Jump - I can't explain why I like this level - it's just fun, and a level where you can constantly try to better yourself.
2: Nearly There - I'm biased as this is in the Crystal style. It's a very easy level for its position, with a very easy solution, but somehow, it's not tedious.
1: POOR WEE CREATURES! - This level (along with Taxing 27) are the only levels in the Master System version where I felt a great sense of satisfaction after completion.

[Gronkling]

Bottom 5:
5. What an AWESOME level. - Very long, tedious hero lemming level with annoying stars. The only thing I like about this level is the music.
4. Bomboozal. - Lots of bomber timing and nothing else.
3. Hunt the Nessy... . - Boring, tedious building over a large level. Quite ugly too.
2. King of the castle. - Boring ad frustrating. Not fun at all.
1. Down, along, up. In that order. - FRUSTRATING AARRGGHHHHHH!!!*∞ . Also it looks bad and is way to long.

Top 5:
5: Postcard from lemmingland - Nice solution that is fun to play though it is a bit hard for it's position.
4: Compression method 1 - Fun, not very obvious solution.
3: The great lemming caper - Really elegant solution with only two lemmings.
2: It's hero time - Good 1 of each skill level that is fun to find other solutions to.
1: No added colours or lemmings - Very unique and elegant solution with only a few skills.

[finlay]

original
Bottom:
5. We all fall down – why must we play this level four times?
4. Taxing 26: Triple Trouble – this was one of the levels that really floored me when I first played the game as a child, for some reason. I still have some residual hatred for it, even though I think I can now manage it, just.
3. Mayhem 29: Save Me – to be expected of one of the final levels, but those final tiny ledges are just annoying.
2. Taxing 14: Hunt the Nessy – as a representative of all the bloody builder levels out there. ARRGH
1. Mayhem 26: The Steel Mines of Kessel – a graphical bug in the Mac version (one of the few times that the updated graphics had an effect on the level – it's the little stalks on the ground; there's about 3 that you should be able to climb over that you can't. Naturally this is a problem because you have to be even more conservative with skill assignment.) and the changing of the goal from 90/100 to 72/80 mean that this level simply induces pure bile within me. It's possible, but very difficult.

Top:
5. Mayhem 2: The Boiler Room – Dunno, there's something I quite like about it. Probably just because it's not intuitive.
4. Taxing 28: POOR WEE CREATURES! – as I say, it took me a long time to pass Triple Trouble for the first time, so I've still got this sense that this and "Call in the bomb squad" are in some way new. If it weren't for that, I'd probably place it lower. Also, I like levels in the crystal style, and ones that aren't repeats. In general.
3. Mayhem 19: Time to get up! – again, I think there's just something I quite like about it because it's unusual.
2. Tricky 25: Cascade – I quite like it when a level does something unique. And the 100% thing is cool too, although I only ever managed it once.
1. Mayhem 20: No added colours or Lemmings – nifty. Difficult to pull off, though.

onml
Bottom:
5. Havoc 16: Scaling the Heights – The other graphical bug that I can think of from either game in the Mac version (coincidentally, it's also 5th from the end!). However, very satisfying to complete, unlike The Steel Mines of Kessel, which crossed over that line long ago – essentially it's the wall that you have to climb up, which isn't quite flat. The climber doesn't get all the way up, and you have to build a step in the little notch so that he can get up. Needless to say, this is very difficult to do. Fortunately on the Mac version loading times are almost non-existant, unlike some other versions I've played. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15543016/scaling2.png" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Here's a screenshot from when I played it the other week if you're wandering what the hell I'm on about. Must be at least the 50th attempt...
4. Wicked 6: PoP TiL YoU DrOp! – bit of a waste of space if you ask me, particularly being able to skip two of the entrances and still get more than 37%.
3. Wicked 9: How on Earth? – Annoying builder-catches-the-floaters level, not hard enough for Wicked.
2. Havoc 5: There's madness in the method – very hard on the PSX version, where you can't select a lemming that isn't bashing by holding the right mouse button or equivalent, so 90% of attempts end with you splatting on the first hurdle.
1. Wild 14: ICE SPY – Actually, it was a toss-up between this and SNOW JOKE. I mean, they're both lazily designed levels with an AWFUL, AWFUL PUN in the title. I also can't remember which is which off the top of my head – and they get conflated with "On the Antarctic Coast" for me, too.

Top:
5. Wicked 2: Inroducing SUPERLEMMING – The speed up function is neat but makes "This Corrosion" feel like the lemmings are walking s-l-o-w-l-y along at a snail's pace. Also, I have a bit of a soft spot for the singleton levels. It's nothing special, I guess. Also, I think there's a backroute near the end where on some versions you can just build over the final gap to get to the exit. That's always how I used to do it, anyway, although it's difficult to pull off. Took me ages to realise what that chamber on the right is for.
4. Havoc 17: Where Lemmings Dare – I think I like it for nostalgic reasons more than anything, for some reason. Dunno. Anyway, simple-looking level with lots of ways of catching you out. However, it was a lot easier for me when I played it the other week than it used to be.
3. Wild 13: ONWARD AND UPWARD – Nice unconventional use of blockers at the beginning, which I like because it's unusual – blockers are usually only used for holding the crowd...
2. Havoc 14: Synchronised Lemming – Not much puzzle to it, it's just a unique level that stands out to me.
1. Havoc 19: Looks a Bit Nippy Out There – Difficult in a good way; very satisfying to complete, because the exact way of getting the lemmings into the right place isn't immediately apparent and took me a while to work out.

holiday
Bottom:
5. Blizzard 12: The Voyage Home... – I haven't really complained about any other levels that take ages to walk because the Mac version has a speed up function. But this just takes the piss. Getting the bombers to go through the ledge is also annoying.
4. Frost 12: It's Boxing Day! – Cheap and nasty trick that violates the conventions of level design. Argh!
3. Hail 6: Surprise Package? – This level just baffles me. It's not even a puzzle, for heaven's sake!
2. Hail 8: Sir Edmund Hilemming – Again, haven't complained about similar levels in ONML or original lemmings, but even with the speed up function this level is very, very tedious. I used the solution on TLE, which is probably a backroute, ie bashing underneath all the obstacles. I can't imagine how tedious it would be to try and build over everything.
1. Blizzard 9: Lemmings...The Motion Picture – this was honestly the tipping point that made me absolutely hate builders. Yes, I can build to catch a non-floater. I know I can. Why must I do it 5 or 6 times? Trivial solution but non-trivial, tedious execution is what made me hate it.

Honorable mention to any level shaped like letters or numbers. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/angry.gif" alt=">" title="Angry" class="smiley" />

Top:
5. Blizzard 1: Oogilemming! – Looks simpler than it is, although I guess it's a bit tedious.
4. Blizzard 13: The Final Frontier – Was thinking of putting it in the bad list because it's annoying, but I decided it can be let off for being quite clever – you think it's a standard builder level but you don't quite have enough unless you change the formula slightly.
3. Hail 13: Polar Expedition – Metal blocks are a nice way of getting the digger to stop, although a little obvious perhaps.
2. Blizzard 15: The Needs of the Many... – A couple of the more unusual tricks in this level but nothing we haven't seen before really. I can't quite fathom why there are less floaters than there are lemmings, though. It seems wasteful to me.
1. Hail 15: Steel Block Party – I like this one because I found a nifty solution to it. It's a different one from the one on TLE, though – you bash, and then use the right mouse button to select a few diggers at the same point as the basher, so that the basher goes down a few pixels and dodges the metal. I think the level's a good design in that it makes you think about how to do it with only one basher.

You may be able to tell I'm flailing a bit there; going back through the list makes me realise how much I hated this game overall and how much "Steel Block Party" was really the only level I actually liked.

By the way, what's "Blitz"?

Lemmings 2
Bottom:
5. Circus 6: HEADACHE – You don't say. Any level that relies on waiting for every lemming to climb into the cannon is a bad level. Plus it's not very obvious how to get to the cannon.
4. Highland 7: In Memory of McAngus – a pausing bug that makes cannons not go off properly makes this level a nightmare.
3. Classic 9: Flying the Mad Pursuit – differences in the selection criteria for Lemmings 2 mean that it's very hard to get the lemmings to build near each other, because the game will try to select the lemming that's already building rather than the one that's not building, which is how it works in the original game. So this level became very difficult for that reason.
2. Shadow 9: SPINNY THANG – I found it very difficult to get twisters to work properly, so a level that relies on their use with very narrow margins of error was a bit of a nightmare.
1. Sports 10: Take Up Archery – the only one that floored me. I managed it on gold a few weeks after completing the rest of the game. It's the bit where you have to get a runner to shoot an arrow in the air and have it come down in such a way that it blocks him that I found hard.

Top:
5. Egyptian 7: The Egypt Cottage – Nice use of flying skills.
4. Circus 8: PLAY THAT FUNKY LEMMING – I quite like using the different digging skills here. Manages to be quite tricky, too, especially at the bit at the beginning where you have to make sure the lemmings don't turn back.
3. Cavelem 9: EVOLUTION OF LEMMINGS – I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with this level, actually, because the bit at the start where you have to laser through the floor and then send a jet pack through the tiny gap is very hard. But I think it's quite a cool level, the way you have to get the guy up there to build the bridges. Reminds me a bit of "This Corrosion".
2. Space 8: Odyssey – Again, a bit of a love-hate level. I couldn't really work out how to do it on my own, unfortunately; all the bits were there but I hadn't pieced them together in the right way. And I wasn't really expecting teleporters. But the level meshes together quite well in the end. It's just a shame that most walkthroughs, including the TLE one, highlight the obvious backroute/bug that is using the swing and shunting the lemming straight into the maze at the bottom without going through most of it.*
1. Space 6: Lunar Olympics – I think this level would have been better suited to the Sports tribe, really, but this was one of the few levels that really made it fun rather than a chore to work out how some of the new skills worked, particularly the pole vaulter, which I always find a little bit funny to watch.

I was flailing a bit here again; I much preferred some tribes to others, and I couldn't think what to put for #5 – because there are quite a few that are kind of alright but not quite good enough to put in the top list. Also I've only played the game once so I don't know the levels by heart like I know the original games.

* Having gone back through the thread, it seems you've already been talking about this: basically what I think is that it's meant to be a way of catching a lemming that isn't a floater – that's the solution I ended up using. This would fit with what Adam said about the SNES version having no chain and a parachutist instead.

[The Doctor]

Rank	Love	Hate
1.	Go for it!	Heaven can wait (WE HOPE!!!!)
2.	Lemming Lament	Hunt the Nessy
3.	Have a nice day!	Origins and Lemmings
4.	The Art Gallery	You need bashers this time
5.	The Far Side	Down, along, up - in that order

[Clam]

Some good points there finlay, especially on the Holiday levels. I guess you'd expect the later games to have worse levels than the originals, but that doesn't account for just how awful some of those levels are. I should redo my original/ONML/holiday list at some point, but split them into separate lists like everyone else has.

Havoc 19: Looks a Bit Nippy Out There – Difficult in a good way; very satisfying to complete, because the exact way of getting the lemmings into the right place isn't immediately apparent and took me a while to work out.

I always just used the easy backroute here (catch the lemmings at the start, and bash to the exit). I did try once (briefly) to find the "intended" solution, but didn't find one. There are other levels where I wonder what the designer's intention was, since there's a huge backroute or the level just seems too easy - "The Lemming Learning Curve" is another. This may be best left for a new thread though.

Hail 15: Steel Block Party – I like this one because I found a nifty solution to it. It's a different one from the one on TLE, though – you bash, and then use the right mouse button to select a few diggers at the same point as the basher, so that the basher goes down a few pixels and dodges the metal. I think the level's a good design in that it makes you think about how to do it with only one basher.

I found this solution too - only after I'd already built and released a custom level using the same trick http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" class="smiley" />

By the way, what's "Blitz"?

Blitz and Blizzard are the same thing. The version I have calls it Blitz, so that's what I know it as.

[GigaLem]

Rank           Love                               Hate 
1.         Fall and No Life (Part 2)      Let's get together
2.         What an AWSOME Level     Steel Works
3.         Dolly Dimple                       If at first you don't sucseed...
4.         SUNSOFT Special               We all Fall Down (Part's 1 though 4)
5.         All the 6's..... http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/devil.gif" alt=":evil:" title="Evil" class="smiley" />(Lol)      Lemmings make level work (Did i spell it right?)

[finlay]

the easy backroute here (catch the lemmings at the start, and bash to the exit). I did try once (briefly) to find the "intended" solution, but didn't find one.

Given that I couldn't find another solution either, I think that's the one. I found it hard to get lemmings out of the pit, though, even doing the catch-them-in-the-pit-and-bash-to-the-left solution. I saw that there was a gap in the metal on the left implying that you should be able to bash through and then climb up, but I couldn't get any solution to work after doing that.

[LemSteven]

5. Wicked 2: Inroducing SUPERLEMMING – [snip]  Also, I think there's a backroute near the end where on some versions you can just build over the final gap to get to the exit. That's always how I used to do it, anyway, although it's difficult to pull off. Took me ages to realise what that chamber on the right is for.

I've never had any kind of success with the "right side" solution to that level.  I always run out of time by a good 20-30 seconds, and I don't see any way of shaving that time off the solution, especially since all of the skills are used.  Is there some sort of timing difference between the PC and Mac versions that makes this possible?

[ccexplore]

Now that you brought this up, yes, the Mac's clock is a little slower, so it may well be that the "right side" solution only works on the Mac version.  (The Amiga version's clock is even faster than the PC's AFAIK; actually I think the Windows version might be slower too, not sure.)

It could be that they originally intended the right-side solution but discovered the backroute, and actually decided to take the backroute over the right-side solution.  It's my only explanation anyway that they would leave the spaces on the right side and yet did not bother to give a measly extra minute.

[CynicalOkie]

Shoot, I'm not that good of a player, but I'd say this:

TOP 5:

1. Heaven Can Wait (We Hope!!!) (Must be the Christianity that comes out in me.)
2. Poles Apart (Not really backroutable, at least from my perspective.)
3. The Crankshaft (As someone said earlier, the lack of bashers makes the level more interesting)
4. It's Hero Time! (One of everything, pretty tough and pretty fun!)
5. Feel the Heat (Short and simple, not a build-a-thon)

BOTTOM 5:

5. Walk the Web Rope (Long and tedious)
4. The Ascending Pillar Scenario (Long and tedious again...)
3. Hunt the Nessy (Long and tedious AGAIN!)
2. All or Nothing (If you know the trick, or have one of those newer versions, this level's a dud.)
1. Tightrope City (Just BLAND and boring.)

[Adam]

Hey, welcome to the forums, CynicalOkie!

It doesn't matter how good you are, it's how much you enjoy the game!

Some interesting choices there - I do quite like how Feel The Heat is in there, that's a good level which is fairly underrated, IMO!

Can't say I agree with you about Walk the Web Rope, though - that's one of my favourites!

[CynicalOkie]

I guess my favorites are the really short and tough ones, huh? (I'm sure a sexual innuendo is in there somewhere, but I won't point it out for obvious reasons.)